[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Nope.

The most important aspect of these cars is how they will be as all-around cars, to turn, accelerate, stop, etc.

Accelerating and stopping. The 2 most important parts of drag racing.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Drag racing is the most important aspect of what these cars are. These cars got their start by going fast in a straight line. No matter how you slice it, what these cars do in a straight line will always be what they are mainly judged on.

Not for me. I had zero interest in the 5th gen SS because I didn't love how it drove and how it felt when being thrown around the corners. If it was 5th gen SS vs S550 GT, I would be in a S550 GT right now.

It's how the 6th gen SS drove is what sold me on it. I was not looking for just a straight line machine.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Eh... I don't know. Motortrend did manage to get 2.4 seconds improvement in lap times from putting the Mustang's summer tires on the 2.0T Camaro instead of the All Seasons. Which was enough to go from losing to the EcoBoost Mustang by .86 seconds to beating it by 1.6 seconds.

But given the time difference between the two, putting the SS 1LE on All Seasons will probably close the gap considerably though.

So what were the tread wear ratings on both sets of tires? Going from All-Season to Summer is far more dramatic improvement than going from let's say PS4s to SC3s.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Not for me. I had zero interest in the 5th gen SS because I didn't love how it drove and how it felt when being thrown around the corners. If it was 5th gen SS vs S550 GT, I would be in a S550 GT right now.

Are you sure?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by metros11

So what were the tread wear ratings on both sets of tires? Going from All-Season to Summer is far more dramatic improvement than going from let's say PS4s to SC3s.

Again the scenario was throwing All Seasons on the 1LE.

Are you sure?

That's the SS 1LE. There is no question the 1LE was a transformation for the 5th gen, but I wasn't interested in the 1LE due to being stick only. The regular SS did not impress me when I drove it. The body roll was noticeable and you could feel the weight of the vehicle.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

It's not really arguments. Just facts that the Mustang crowd refuse to acknowledge.

SS > GT
Zl1 > GT350
Zl1 1LE > GT350R
Z06 > Upcoming GT500
ZR1 > $400k Ford GT.

How many head to heads and reviews and videos and track times must we post? I think it's just entertainment for the most of us around here honestly because the Mustang crowd have officially hit level 9 bat shit crazyness.

Hmmm. My opinions for what it's worth. So we only considering pure performance, yes? And we can only consider released versions tested head to head, I think. Not Internet comparisons.

SS > GT - Yes, up to 2018 where in speed SS = GT, and in handling SS still a bit > GT PP1. PP2 will raise the GT bar, let's wait and see.

Zl1 > GT350 - Ageed but I call foul. NA vs FI with NA being the preferred track power

Zl1 1LE > GT350R - Ageed but I call foul. NA vs FI with NA being the preferred track power

Z06 > Upcoming GT500 Who knows? Will they really compete with each other? Probably true though Z06 > New GT500 with the weight advantage.

ZR1 > $400k Ford GT. Now this one is interesting, let's wait and see the head to head to judge. Although given the scarcity and $$ value of the GT an all out comparison may never happen. I hope it does.

One thing about the Ford people, like us they sometimes just make claims to get our panties in a twist. And both sides have bat excrement problems at times.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Hmmm. My opinions for what it's worth. So we only considering pure performance, yes? And we can only consider released versions tested head to head, I think. Not Internet comparisons.

Zl1 > GT350 - Ageed but I call foul. NA vs FI with NA being the preferred track power

Zl1 1LE > GT350R - Ageed but I call foul. NA vs FI with NA being the preferred track power

fouls overturned, by virtue of the rules you set yourself...

"So we only considering pure performance, yes?" J/K

And I sort of take issue with the FI not preferred for the track thing...says who? That statement is tossed around a LOT...and I can't help but think this is of the same sort of mentality that spawned the Manual > Auto and V8 > V6 stuff. A well-executed positive displacement blower will yield instant power just like NA (see ZL1)...and a well-executed turbo can do the same (see Italians).

Of course I'm biased, so I felt the need to speak up about it...the ZL1 is a beast on the track. Don't get me wrong; I love a good NA engine...it's raw...direct. So you'll get no disagreement about that engine from, me. Yet, this LT4 spins up and down quicker and freer than the LS3 ever did.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by metros11

Are you sure?

I agree with Chevy Rules. The 1LE was a game changer for the 5th gen SS and it did out-handle all the Bosses and any S550 except maybe the GT350. But the sad part is the 1LE is a used car and the Boss is holding its value pretty well. And of course the GT350 is almost already a car to collect. Chevy has a harder time with the magic need to get big $$ attention. But damn, why didn't I buy that L88 Corvette back in the day.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

fouls overturned, by virtue of the rules you set yourself...

"So we only considering pure performance, yes?" J/K

And I sort of take issue with the FI not preferred for the track thing...says who? That statement is tossed around a LOT...and I can't help but think this is of the same sort of mentality that spawned the Manual > Auto and V8 > V6 stuff. A well-executed positive displacement blower will yield instant power just like NA (see ZL1)...and a well-executed turbo can do the same (see Italians).

Of course I'm biased, so I felt the need to speak up about it...the ZL1 is a beast on the track. Don't get me wrong; I love a good NA engine...it's raw...direct. So you'll get no disagreement about that engine from, me. Yet, this LT4 spins up and down quicker and freer than the LS3 ever did.

You got me. Darn! I love ALL of the ZL1s. Missed out on that first one too.

But I will say, that FI is too much on the track for most mere mortals besides the extra weight, heat soak and drive-train stress. That TT Orange 1LE below found itself shiny side down on a race track in the hands of the wrong person. My bad. Luckily he lives to tell the tale.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

840 on a stock motor?...Possible but not with any sort of longevity or even safe.

It seems like 650-700 is where most 5.0's running 8-10ish lbs of boost run on either stock or mostly stock motors (IE replacing the oil pump gears).

I would say 840 on a stock Coyote engine is certain disaster. They can do over 700 without issues. My good friend has a 15 with a Novi 2200 and he is making about 715 to the wheels on the stock OPGs. He hasn't had any issues. A PD blower probably would have had issues tho.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

I think you're overstating the amount of "Camaro designing" GM did for the 6th gen. GM used the chassis "designed" for another upscale brand entirely, borrowed the engine from another upscale model entirely. Ford "designed" S550 for Mustang... its a chassis built for a $25-45k car not a $35-100K luxury platform.

And what does any of that matter? It is still a chassis designed by GM. Maybe Ford should have built a better chassis for the Mustang then. Or maybe they should up-borrowed a chassis for the Mustang like you claim Chevy did. But stop with the excuses. A better chassis is a better chassis. Either step up to the plate or don't. But if you're gonna half-ass it, come up short, then build a million excuses then you might as well not even show up.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

on a gen1 coyote. 840whp all day on a gen2+. I've ran 680whp for 3yrs on my DD bone stock gen 1 and just tuned for e85 at 740whp still stock. I dont expect it to be reliable but it will only see e85 at the track.

840 all day...yea bullshit.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Nope.

The most important aspect of these cars is how they will be as all-around cars, to turn, accelerate, stop, etc.

I consider the most important aspect to be where these cars got their roots from and that was drag racing. Right now the trend is to have an all around car that performs well and has luxuries and options etc. But they got their start from racing. People bought these cars and took them to the local strip or secluded roads or even crowded roads for that matter (way back in the day). Drag racing is what made them popular and that is what I was going by.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Not for me. I had zero interest in the 5th gen SS because I didn't love how it drove and how it felt when being thrown around the corners. If it was 5th gen SS vs S550 GT, I would be in a S550 GT right now.

It's how the 6th gen SS drove is what sold me on it. I was not looking for just a straight line machine.

Yea well I would take a S550 over a 5th Gen SS also but how fair is that to compare a 6th Gen Mustang to the outgoing 5th Gen Camaro that was in it's last year of production? Between the 5th Gen Camaro SS and S197 GT which would you choose if both were the same price and both were to remain stock? I'd pick the SS hands down. Even with mods I would take the 5th Gen SS over a S197 GT.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Hmmm. My opinions for what it's worth. So we only considering pure performance, yes? And we can only consider released versions tested head to head, I think. Not Internet comparisons.

SS > GT - Yes, up to 2018 where in speed SS = GT, and in handling SS still a bit > GT PP1. PP2 will raise the GT bar, let's wait and see.

Zl1 > GT350 - Ageed but I call foul. NA vs FI with NA being the preferred track power

Zl1 1LE > GT350R - Ageed but I call foul. NA vs FI with NA being the preferred track power

Z06 > Upcoming GT500 Who knows? Will they really compete with each other? Probably true though Z06 > New GT500 with the weight advantage.

ZR1 > $400k Ford GT. Now this one is interesting, let's wait and see the head to head to judge. Although given the scarcity and $$ value of the GT an all out comparison may never happen. I hope it does.

One thing about the Ford people, like us they sometimes just make claims to get our panties in a twist. And both sides have bat excrement problems at times.

It's another funny thing how all these years Mustang guys have been a fan of forced induction...yet now the Mustang offers no forced induction and their best track car gets it's ass handed to it by a ZL1 and now the Mustang guys are all about NA and forced induction is a "foul" or it isn't fair to compare them.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea well I would take a S550 over a 5th Gen SS also but how fair is that to compare a 6th Gen Mustang to the outgoing 5th Gen Camaro that was in it's last year of production? Between the 5th Gen Camaro SS and S197 GT which would you choose if both were the same price and both were to remain stock? I'd pick the SS hands down. Even with mods I would take the 5th Gen SS over a S197 GT.

Point being... It wasn't the straight line performance that got me into the Camaro.

[Syphon23]

Idiot Mustang guys at it again...

"I am going to mention that the PP2 w/A10 is effortless fun, & will match the Corvette on the streets"

The 18s can are pretty even with the LS3 let alone the LT1s.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Point being... It wasn't the straight line performance that got me into the Camaro.

From way back it was not the pony cars that were the true drag racers. Heck for a long time the Mustang could only be had with a 289, you wanted to go fast you need a Fairlane GT, Pontiac GTO, Chevelle 396, 440 B body. For the most part the pony cars were more focused on looks, stopping and turning. The z/28, AAR Cuda, GT 350, Boss 302 were all handling packages vs most HP. Sure all that has changed because no OEM has a big block engine, most don't even have an intermediate body either. Ford loss the stopping and handling with the foxbody cause the 4 link rear sucked bad. GM kept the 3 link with panhard rod and it really was a sports car that was also reasonably fast, maybe not Grand National fast, but fast. To my mind the Camaro has dominated this combination for more that 2 almost three decades. It is fast as a drag racer, yet makes a heck of good sports car. I'd still take my Type R for controlled tossability, but really the base SS was a great car (my car has too much HP now to be "fun"), there really is no way to get on it unless: perfectly clear, perfectly smooth, perfectly straight, and even then. I kind of ruined the car from a tossability stand point. Oh well.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I consider the most important aspect to be where these cars got their roots from and that was drag racing.

You will love electric cars and that's not meant to be a put-down.

But, I find judging the car by drag racing to be pretty laughable overall, because you can simply shoe-horn a bigger engine in a car, add a blower, add meth, etc. It's much easier to take an older car from the 60s and make it a good "drag car" than it is to make it something that will compete on a track. Making "performance" all about drag-racing is way too one-dimensional. It's not that the sport is laughable, I get that people like competing in it and being able to go faster, it's that it doesn't really depend on chassis dynamics or drive-ability, so the car may handle like crap, may ride like crap, may steer like crap, may brake like crap, etc. In the real world, those things mean a lot more to me than just the straight-line acceleration. Heck, the old drag-racing cars were some of the first where automatic transmissions became "the fastest way". That again is the complete opposite reason that I bought my car. I bought it to get more connected with the car and the road with a manual trans.