[torqueaddict]

The more I learn the LT1's characteristics, the more I appreciate the tall gears on the Tremec. I know there some differing opinions about this, but it makes its entire power band more usable.

Another underappreciated feature is GM's rev matching. I don't think it would be a stretch to consider it almost perfect. It just works so well it seems to be taken for granted. You read reviews and there's a hardly a mention of it. When you hear the horror stories of a poorly implemented version (e.g the Honda Civic Type R), you truly appreciate what GM did. And I can almost guarantee, when Ford finally implements it, it will be full of bugs. But the mags will still be singing its praises.

People call the Camaro expensive, but you get what you pay for, and I'm proud to be a fanboy.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe this is the case. I know the 15-17s were slow in comparison to the 18. I compared A8-A10 times and like I said given similar ETs they are nearly identical in all measured sections.

A buddy of mine test drove an 18 A10 and he said it felt just as fast as his 15 GT felt when it was FBO but before the blower. So we all know it is a fast car. However it seems to me like it loses ground off the line but then catches up at some point. And again it isn't all of the A10s that have this ability. Only some of them depending on how you option them out. The M6 GT is only slightly faster than the 15-17s (it seems) based on their quarter mile time.

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

The more I learn the LT1's characteristics, the more I appreciate the tall gears on the Tremec. I know there some differing opinions about this, but it makes its entire power band more usable.

Another underappreciated feature is GM's rev matching. I don't think it would be a stretch to consider it almost perfect. It just works so well it seems to be taken for granted. You read reviews and there's a hardly a mention of it. When you hear the horror stories of a poorly implemented version (e.g the Honda Civic Type R), you truly appreciate what GM did. And I can almost guarantee, when Ford finally implements it, it will be full of bugs. But the mags will still be singing its praises.

People call the Camaro expensive, but you get what you pay for, and I'm proud to be a fanboy.

GM puts a lot into their cars and in my opinion it all started back with the Corvette. They pitted the Vette against the best cars on the planet and the Vette was always somewhere in the middle. I always say that in the same price range there is no car that can hang with what GM puts out. And that isn't just performance. That includes options, tech, safety features, etc. Camaros are very well built and it is because we have the R&D that gets put into the Vette trickling down to us. Mustangs, Challengers, and no other cars on this level have that. There is nothing in the ZL1's price range that can beat it in anything...or even on average.

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

No doubt about it the ZL1 in either Manual or Auto is the faster car in all aspects! The only problem is this per MT.

"The R’s just more fun to drive. Again, I’m not sure how Ford Performance did it, but I think there’s a layer of pixie dust baked into the GT350R. I might call it a thing divine"

Considering that this is a "performance car" comparison, the car that "performed" better in every catagory is the better performance car. Pretty simple. No one cares about a subjective opinion that was likely biased for whatever reason.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

Considering that this is a "performance car" comparison, the car that "performed" better in every catagory is the better performance car. Pretty simple. No one cares about a subjective opinion that was likely biased for whatever reason.

The R is a better balanced better handling car than the ZL1 its not some immeasurable opinion.

Just as Motor trend picked the gen5 ZL1 as the winner despite getting raped on the drag strip and losing on the road course.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The R is a better balanced better handling car than the ZL1 its not some immeasurable opinion.

Just as Motor trend picked the gen5 ZL1 as the winner despite getting raped on the drag strip and losing on the road course.

The R lines up with the Zl1 1LE so. Comparisons are moot. The Zl1 1LE murders the R. But, agreed on the Gen5 Zl1. Thing was a dog.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The R is a better balanced better handling car than the ZL1 its not some immeasurable opinion.

Just as Motor trend picked the gen5 ZL1 as the winner despite getting raped on the drag strip and losing on the road course.

That is subjective. If it was that much better at handling and that much better balanced then it certainly would have done better than the SS 1LE on that track where the H2H took place. And if it was that much better then the extra HP and TQ of the ZL1 would not have mattered. Even if it was, slightly, then GM managed to make a car that doesn't handle as good and isn't as balanced yet can beat the GT350R on any track. So that says a lot right there.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That is subjective. If it was that much better at handling and that much better balanced then it certainly would have done better than the SS 1LE on that track where the H2H took place. And if it was that much better then the extra HP and TQ of the ZL1 would not have mattered. Even if it was, slightly, then GM managed to make a car that doesn't handle as good and isn't as balanced yet can beat the GT350R on any track. So that says a lot right there.

it's called needing Forced Induction to beat an n/a car...brag about that if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. I get a chuckle out of it.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

it's called needing Forced Induction to beat an n/a car...brag about that if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. I get a chuckle out of it.

What about the advantages the 350r has over the zl1? You seem to forget them.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

What about the advantages the 350r has over the zl1? You seem to forget them.

Like everything besides hp? Its not even a track dedicated car like the R

And they already established the zl1 is just as slow. So how can the hp be any advantage? lol

its merely a 4100lb grand touring car with 150 lbs over the nose that beat fords best track dedicated "R" model track monster in a lap time. Its true competitor the zl1 1le wipes the floor with it. And its even slower in speed/accel

so I have to agree with blaq here...its pretty amazing that the big slow zl1 can beat a 350r on a race track. really amazing actually

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

What about the advantages the 350r has over the zl1? You seem to forget them.

300lbs Vs Forced induction? If you go racing and tell the competition you'll spot them 300lbs if you can run a power adder you'll get laughed at.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Like everything besides hp? Its not even a track dedicated car like the R

And they already established the zl1 is just as slow. So how can the hp be any advantage? lol

its merely a 4100lb grand touring car with 150 lbs over the nose that beat fords best track dedicated "R" model track monster in a lap time. Its true competitor the zl1 1le wipes the floor with it. And its even slower in speed/accel

so I have to agree with blaq here...its pretty amazing that the big slow zl1 can beat a 350r on a race track. really amazing actually

The thing to if he read the whole article, they said this car was the same car that got the much faster time earlier. So how were the tires and brakes this time around? If you look at the pics, they show a close up of the tires on the R and zl1, and the zl1 tires look to be well used while the R looks new. He always says tires make the biggest difference, yet he seems to forget when the R has better and newer tires.


:

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

so I have to agree with blaq here...its pretty amazing that the big slow zl1 can beat a 350r on a race track. really amazing actually

Fact of the matter is it only beats it on a straight away and just barely

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

The thing to if he read the whole article, they said this car was the same car that got the much faster time earlier. So how were the tires and brakes this time around? If you look at the pics, they show a close up of the tires on the R and zl1, and the zl1 tires look to be well used while the R looks new. He always says tires make the biggest difference, yet he seems to forget when the R has better and newer tires.


:

you don't get to cherry pick your lap times in a H2H.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you don't get to cherry pick your lap times in a H2H.

Who’s cherry picking. Just look at the pics. The zl1 is on used tires while the R is on new. If it makes you feel good the R got close to it, that’s fine, but I get a chuckle out it.