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Old 01-16-2025, 12:05 PM   #15
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As ridiculously expensive as SUVs, trucks and sports cars are right now, many are done with it and buying basic cars instead, which are really good. Quiet, comfortable and efficient. Not everyone wants a truck or a sports car for sitting in traffic. I just bought an Elantra N and had absolutely no alternative from Ford or GM. IDK WTF they were thinking when they stopped selling regular cars. The average vehicle is now nearing $50k!
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Old 01-16-2025, 12:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
As ridiculously expensive as SUVs, trucks and sports cars are right now, many are done with it and buying basic cars instead, which are really good. Quiet, comfortable and efficient. Not everyone wants a truck or a sports car for sitting in traffic. I just bought an Elantra N and had absolutely no alternative from Ford or GM. IDK WTF they were thinking when they stopped selling regular cars. The average vehicle is now nearing $50k!
The insane part is that the costs of vehicles has skyrocketed over the last four years with nothing else driving it but greed. They made a killing in 20/21/22 and got greedy. Now they are paying for it heavily.

There no reason a pickup truck should cost 90k. When I bought my Silverado in 20 its base price was $54k CAD, now the same exact truck is high 60's. RST trim levels went from 60's to almost 90 and then they wonder why we have record levels of stock sitting in lots that no one is buying.
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Old 01-16-2025, 01:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
As ridiculously expensive as SUVs, trucks and sports cars are right now, many are done with it and buying basic cars instead, which are really good. Quiet, comfortable and efficient. Not everyone wants a truck or a sports car for sitting in traffic. I just bought an Elantra N and had absolutely no alternative from Ford or GM. IDK WTF they were thinking when they stopped selling regular cars. The average vehicle is now nearing $50k!
I just recently bought a 2025 GM black Trax Active fully loaded, minus the sunroof, out the door for $27,000. The base model is I think around 21,000. And GM, who I've seen on this board and elsewhere referred to as "woke" (hilarious) is selling them like hotcakes. From Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc., it's all gotten great reviews for being a well-made, affordable vehicle.

I expect more cars to be made like this when the manufacturers realize their profit margin is less on these vehicles, but they can sell so many of them it more than makes up for it. Not to mention the amount of time because of interest rates and high prices these overpriced vehicles are sitting on dealer lots and not selling. It's like the housing market. People are checking out and waiting for a downturn and tired of being robbed.

I think for the regular consumer who needs a point A to point B vehicle the tide is turning, and it's a good thing. As muscle car and sports car enthusiasts, which I am one, not so much.

Last edited by Texas1ss; 01-16-2025 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 01-16-2025, 01:39 PM   #18
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The bolded part is not true. I just recently bought a 2025 GM black Trax Active fully loaded, minus the sunroof, out the door for $27,000. The base model is I think around 21,000. And GM, who I've seen on this board and elsewhere referred to as "woke" (hilarious) is selling them like hotcakes.

I expect more cars to be made like this when the manufacturers realize their profit margin is less on these vehicles, but they can sell so many of them it more than makes up for it. Not to mention the amount of time because of interest rates and high prices these overpriced cars are sitting on dealer lots.

I think for the regular consumer who needs a point A to point B vehicle the tide is turning, and it's a good thing. As muscle car and sports car enthusiasts, which I am one, not so much.
No, that's a CUV or mini-SUV. I just wanted a regular old car. The Trax looks great and I'm sure it works for a lot of folks, but it's not all that close to a Civic Si or Elantra N.
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Old 01-16-2025, 01:45 PM   #19
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No, that's a CUV or mini-SUV. I just wanted a regular old car. The Trax looks great and I'm sure it works for a lot of folks, but it's not all that close to a Civic Si or Elantra N.
I had edited out the "it's not true" before you replied after I caught what you were getting at. It was my mistake. That said, they are making affordable vehicles, and I fail to see the difference in a mini-SUV, like the Trax, and a car, as far as figuring in price, its purpose, and general usage.

Now, if we're talking about a truck with a bed, I get it. Not with the mini-SUVs and cars, though. Pretty dang similar except for looks and ride height.
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Old 01-16-2025, 02:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
As ridiculously expensive as SUVs, trucks and sports cars are right now, many are done with it and buying basic cars instead, which are really good. Quiet, comfortable and efficient. Not everyone wants a truck or a sports car for sitting in traffic. I just bought an Elantra N and had absolutely no alternative from Ford or GM. IDK WTF they were thinking when they stopped selling regular cars. The average vehicle is now nearing $50k!
I also wanted a regular car for winter and shitty summer daily driving, '24 Corolla LE Hybrid AWD. About $25k. GM doesn't have anything like it. I could care less about Ford or Stellantis, and they don't have regular cars anyway. Gotta go Japanese if you want something reasonable. GM cut me deep with the death of the Gen6 Z/28, not to mention the woke/EV bullshit.
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Old 01-16-2025, 05:13 PM   #21
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my wifes 2018 civic coupe is actually a relatively quick and good handling car.i cant see spending more than 25k on something thats going to take a chance on being totalled by some idiot not paying attention to where they are going.
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Old 01-16-2025, 06:06 PM   #22
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I had edited out the "it's not true" before you replied after I caught what you were getting at. It was my mistake. That said, they are making affordable vehicles, and I fail to see the difference in a mini-SUV, like the Trax, and a car, as far as figuring in price, its purpose, and general usage.

Now, if we're talking about a truck with a bed, I get it. Not with the mini-SUVs and cars, though. Pretty dang similar except for looks and ride height.
Yeah, that's true... I was hoping to buy a Civic Si for around $30k, I wanted a slow car that's fun to drive fast-ish, practical and fairly efficient with lower cost of ownership vs my previous BMW.

However, Honda dealers suck. All of them with no exceptions in my area. IDK who is willing to pay a $4k ADM or $3k + stupid insurance or whatever they sell with the car. You can get an Acura "Integra" with M6 without ADM, but now it's a $39.2k Civic Si with more options I don't need.

The Elantra N ended up being just a bit more than a Civic Si with ADM, but the car is more a Type-R competitor and is surprisingly good for the money, I could barely believe it. Not only that, but it's as track-ready from the factory as a 1LE Camaro. It even has an eDiff with 3 settings, adaptive shocks with 3 settings, and a PDK-level DCT. You can custom configure 2 custom settings. It's like a Korean Camaro, but also a great daily driver, unlike Camaros, lol.

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Old 01-16-2025, 07:30 PM   #23
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Chevy just axed their last sedan but they’re going to build two different coupes?

All-new Mustang has no competition and is still a flop. Mary sees this as well as we do.
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Old 01-16-2025, 07:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
Yeah, that's true... I was hoping to buy a Civic Si for around $30k, I wanted a slow car that's fun to drive fast-ish, practical and fairly efficient with lower cost of ownership vs my previous BMW.

However, Honda dealers suck. All of them with no exceptions in my area. IDK who is willing to pay a $4k ADM or $3k + stupid insurance or whatever they sell with the car. You can get an Acura "Integra" with M6 without ADM, but now it's a $39.2k Civic Si with more options I don't need.

The Elantra N ended up being just a bit more than a Civic Si with ADM, but the car is more a Type-R competitor and is surprisingly good for the money, I could barely believe it. Not only that, but it's as track-ready from the factory as a 1LE Camaro. It even has an eDiff with 3 settings, adaptive shocks with 3 settings, and a PDK-level DCT. You can custom configure 2 custom settings. It's like a Korean Camaro, but also a great daily driver, unlike Camaros, lol.

Really nice looking car. I had never heard of one till I Googled it after reading your post. And the MPG is close to my Trax, but the performance is nowhere near it. Saw I think yours does 0 to 60 in 4.8. I think I'm at 9 seconds. In the low RPM range it's peppy enough with the turbo to not to get rear-ended merging into traffic, but it drops off at higher RPMs bigtime.

But I just needed reliable transportation and a daily that looked good without breaking the bank while I save up for another house. Plus, the Trax, at least to me, is sporty looking and punches higher than its price in that category of vehicle.

The big three need more vehicles that won't break the bank for the average consumer. Especially seeing what China has planned for the future and depending how all that pans out politically. If not, they might be in a world of hurt in the next few years. I hope they succeed.
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Old 01-16-2025, 09:58 PM   #25
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Yeah, that's true... I was hoping to buy a Civic Si for around $30k, I wanted a slow car that's fun to drive fast-ish, practical and fairly efficient with lower cost of ownership vs my previous BMW.

However, Honda dealers suck. All of them with no exceptions in my area. IDK who is willing to pay a $4k ADM or $3k + stupid insurance or whatever they sell with the car. You can get an Acura "Integra" with M6 without ADM, but now it's a $39.2k Civic Si with more options I don't need.

The Elantra N ended up being just a bit more than a Civic Si with ADM, but the car is more a Type-R competitor and is surprisingly good for the money, I could barely believe it. Not only that, but it's as track-ready from the factory as a 1LE Camaro. It even has an eDiff with 3 settings, adaptive shocks with 3 settings, and a PDK-level DCT. You can custom configure 2 custom settings. It's like a Korean Camaro, but also a great daily driver, unlike Camaros, lol.


The Elantra N is a no joke badass car. My dad just bought a regular 2025 Elantra. Just over $18,000 out the door. Heck of a car for not much money.
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Old 01-16-2025, 10:26 PM   #26
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You know Dodge has the ICE Hurricane Charger coming back, right? Not maybe, it will be on lots soon.

Now all the sudden all of you are IF NO V8 IT IS TRASH!

How many here would take a Buick GN? Turbo V6?

Stoking the fire
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Old 01-16-2025, 10:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
Yeah, that's true... I was hoping to buy a Civic Si for around $30k, I wanted a slow car that's fun to drive fast-ish, practical and fairly efficient with lower cost of ownership vs my previous BMW.

However, Honda dealers suck. All of them with no exceptions in my area. IDK who is willing to pay a $4k ADM or $3k + stupid insurance or whatever they sell with the car. You can get an Acura "Integra" with M6 without ADM, but now it's a $39.2k Civic Si with more options I don't need.

The Elantra N ended up being just a bit more than a Civic Si with ADM, but the car is more a Type-R competitor and is surprisingly good for the money, I could barely believe it. Not only that, but it's as track-ready from the factory as a 1LE Camaro. It even has an eDiff with 3 settings, adaptive shocks with 3 settings, and a PDK-level DCT. You can custom configure 2 custom settings. It's like a Korean Camaro, but also a great daily driver, unlike Camaros, lol.

I bought a civic si for my daily in 2022 and put 38k on it in just under 2 years. I got rid of it because it was uncomfortable, rattled (the disc brake shields and the super thin skid plate under the engine) the console latch keep falling off and it barely held any washer fluid and didnt tell you when it was low. The stock tires sounded like really bad wheel bearings but still had half the life left. I traded it for a 2024 jetta gli 40th anniversary edition and I now have 18k since june of 2024 and its a far better car than the civic si in my opinion. It may not be as bullet proof over the long term but I wont keep it more than 100k and the fit and finish and comfort is worth it. It was cheaper than the si as well.
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Old 01-16-2025, 11:56 PM   #28
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GM is in no position right now to bring anything back. They are so hurting for money they just cancelled the T1XX SUV and are delaying the truck. They have no money right now so a complete re-design/release of the Camaro is completely out of the question.

2025 is gonna be the year of holding on and hopefully restructuring. The big 3 OEM's are all in trouble again and really need to re-think their direction to stay alive.
Not sure where you’re getting this. GM out-performed earnings projections for the 1st three quarters of 2024 and the stock price is up about 40% over the same time last year. 4th quarter and total year earnings have not been reported yet but are expected to again exceed expectations.

New York (CNN) — General Motors reported much stronger than expected third-quarter earnings and gave an outlook that puts it on the path for record earnings in 2024 – just a year after a costly strike by members of the United Auto Workers union.

The company reported it earned an adjusted profit $3.4 billion in the third quarter, up from $3.2 billion for the year ago period, which was impacted by the first two weeks of the strike that lasted more than six weeks. Adjusted earnings for the first nine months of the year reached $9.9 billion.

Revenue rose more than 10% to $48.8 billion, topping forecasts by nearly $800 million and rising far faster than the 5% increase in the number of vehicles it sold. That means GM is selling cars at higher average prices this year than it was in 2023. Its average transaction price in North America reached nearly $50,000.



T1XX SUV has not been cancelled. It’s a cash cow for Pete’s sake. There are likely some delays. That’s par for the course in the auto industry. Continuing the current truck and utilities for a year or lest won’t bankrupt the company.
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