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Old 01-23-2025, 11:37 AM   #1
beowulf556
 
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Question Headers Install

Hi all, I've been researching this question for days now but can't find a solid answer.

I live in Nevada where they plug in for smog. I plan on getting headers with cats. I keep reading though, that unless I get a tune before starting the car after the install, I will get a permanent code, thus failing smog when that time comes.

So are my only two choices either getting a remote tune, then install the headers, or have a performance shop install them and do the tune?

I want the tune regardless but really want to do the work myself after just buying a 2 post lift.

How do DIYers install headers and avoid these codes so the car is still smogable?
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Old 01-23-2025, 02:16 PM   #2
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You need to flash a tune prior to headers or you will get perm codes in the ECU.

Typically what I do for my clients is always recommend they keep all 4 O2's and then adjust the cat efficiency code so that it wont set and have them flash it first. Then you have no issues with passing emissions.

If you are removing the rear O2's, you HAVE to flash the proper tune file in before starting the car or the codes will set permanently. Even if you remove the codes after the fact and re-flash, the CEL will turn off but the codes will still be in the ECU and it will fail readiness.
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Old 01-23-2025, 02:32 PM   #3
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I'm in AZ and require a "scan" for emissions.

I installed my headers with NO cats myself and then drove to the shop to get the tune. Did the check engine light come on. Yup. After the tune, the light was gone.

Is there a "permanent" code somewhere....maybe.

But I've had to do emissions twice and each time passed without even a blink of an eye.
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Old 01-23-2025, 03:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZIROC View Post
I'm in AZ and require a "scan" for emissions.

I installed my headers with NO cats myself and then drove to the shop to get the tune. Did the check engine light come on. Yup. After the tune, the light was gone.

Is there a "permanent" code somewhere....maybe.

But I've had to do emissions twice and each time passed without even a blink of an eye.
This.

Permanent codes are more of an OCD issue from what I'm aware of. I'll have a handful of permanent codes on my ECU and I could give a shit less. When the CEL is off and all emissions show ready you are a Pass pretty much everywhere. CA and a few other states might be special because they are special. I don't even try to comment on folks living in CA trying to live the V8 life let alone modified V8 life. I'm sure they'll pass a law some day saying people will have to take turns on what days they are allowed to drive, and maybe even have to buy a road pass with miles allowed, like a fvckin pre-paid phone card for your cars.

As an ex-NV resident, I believe you're allowed 1 or 2 "not ready" status to be a Pass, as well. Which I think that gets chewed up just being Tuned. But it's been a while. I used to swap my off-road mid-pipe for a catted mid-pipe every year to smog my old Mustang. Never had a problem, even on E85.
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Old 01-23-2025, 05:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megahurtz View Post
You need to flash a tune prior to headers or you will get perm codes in the ECU.

Typically what I do for my clients is always recommend they keep all 4 O2's and then adjust the cat efficiency code so that it wont set and have them flash it first. Then you have no issues with passing emissions.

If you are removing the rear O2's, you HAVE to flash the proper tune file in before starting the car or the codes will set permanently. Even if you remove the codes after the fact and re-flash, the CEL will turn off but the codes will still be in the ECU and it will fail readiness.
I would like to keep all the o2s. From my understanding I just need some wire extensions? Are you a remote tuner? Can you dm me some more info if you are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZIROC View Post
I'm in AZ and require a "scan" for emissions.

I installed my headers with NO cats myself and then drove to the shop to get the tune. Did the check engine light come on. Yup. After the tune, the light was gone.

Is there a "permanent" code somewhere....maybe.

But I've had to do emissions twice and each time passed without even a blink of an eye.
Thanks that’s encouraging.
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Old 01-23-2025, 06:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf556 View Post
Hi all, I've been researching this question for days now but can't find a solid answer.

I live in Nevada where they plug in for smog. I plan on getting headers with cats. I keep reading though, that unless I get a tune before starting the car after the install, I will get a permanent code, thus failing smog when that time comes.

So are my only two choices either getting a remote tune, then install the headers, or have a performance shop install them and do the tune?

I want the tune regardless but really want to do the work myself after just buying a 2 post lift.

How do DIYers install headers and avoid these codes so the car is still smogable?

You may have seen my older posts asking the same questions.
I have installed headers a few times on my 4th gens so this time around I was wondering why everyone says this about 6gens.
I have since talked to a tuner about this and he says it's the same as the past.
Having old stored permanent codes is not the same thing as a check engine light. You can install the headers first if you want and then get the tune so you don't get the check engine light. Yes, you can end up having old stored permanent codes doing it like this but that does not fail emissions. A permanent check engine light does.
The tuner and I are both from emission states. I have never had permanent codes fail my emissions tests.
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Old 01-23-2025, 07:02 PM   #7
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I would think a permanent code would hurt resale value if you decide to sell the car?
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Old 01-23-2025, 11:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by vince3 View Post
I would think a permanent code would hurt resale value if you decide to sell the car?
Interesting question that makes me think of another to ask.

Parts go bad all the time, so even if they get repaired these "permanent" codes still linger in the background?
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Old 01-24-2025, 07:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf556 View Post
Interesting question that makes me think of another to ask.

Parts go bad all the time, so even if they get repaired these "permanent" codes still linger in the background?
Yes.
For example, two years ago, driving in Florida in my Honda. I went over a bump and it set off ABS light and other things I don’t remember. Car drove normal. After a couple drives the ABS lights went away. 2 years later I plugged in an ABS scanner and found quite a few permanent codes in there. I figured it must of been from the time in FL but IDK for sure. I could have cleared the codes but I chose to leave them just in case. 3 years later car has the perma codes and nobody would ever know unless a scanner was plugged in. This whole thing is overblown if you ask me. I wouldn’t worry about it.
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Old 01-24-2025, 08:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZIROC View Post
I'm in AZ and require a "scan" for emissions.

I installed my headers with NO cats myself and then drove to the shop to get the tune. Did the check engine light come on. Yup. After the tune, the light was gone.

Is there a "permanent" code somewhere....maybe.

But I've had to do emissions twice and each time passed without even a blink of an eye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyGhost702 View Post
This.

Permanent codes are more of an OCD issue from what I'm aware of. I'll have a handful of permanent codes on my ECU and I could give a shit less. When the CEL is off and all emissions show ready you are a Pass pretty much everywhere. CA and a few other states might be special because they are special. I don't even try to comment on folks living in CA trying to live the V8 life let alone modified V8 life. I'm sure they'll pass a law some day saying people will have to take turns on what days they are allowed to drive, and maybe even have to buy a road pass with miles allowed, like a fvckin pre-paid phone card for your cars.

As an ex-NV resident, I believe you're allowed 1 or 2 "not ready" status to be a Pass, as well. Which I think that gets chewed up just being Tuned. But it's been a while. I used to swap my off-road mid-pipe for a catted mid-pipe every year to smog my old Mustang. Never had a problem, even on E85.

If you get permanent O2 codes in the ECU, one of your emissions ready will always fail. As long as all of your other things are passing, you will pass emissions.

The reason I say to handle it before you drive the car is because I've seen so many people not follow the flash first method and then the car takes forever for the fuel ready/pass to set. Like 2-3 fuel tanks worth and they keep failing until finally they do pass but its a huge headache.

So, can you pass emissions if you flash after the fact? Yeah, but beware of the above. Also, if you live in a certain state, who's to say they don't pass a law where you can no longer have the exhaust system fail? Then what will you have to do? The only way is to put all of the O2's and Cats back on until it goes ready. So by simply flashing first, you avoid all of the headache. Just a recommendation based on the numerous people I have contacting me for help because of they flashed after the codes were already set.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf556 View Post
I would like to keep all the o2s. From my understanding I just need some wire extensions? Are you a remote tuner? Can you dm me some more info if you are?
snackbartuning.com
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Old 01-24-2025, 08:41 AM   #11
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^This...
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Old 01-24-2025, 01:33 PM   #12
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I dont think I've EVER heard of anyone questioning a stored emissions code when buying/selling a car. As long as there is no CEL/pending code(s) and the car has passed recent emissions, its been good to go.



Granted, I'm in AZ so emissions stuff here is different than say CA or NY. But if you are in CA and buying a car out for state, it's up to you to know if it's been modified so you don't get hammered by the inspectors. That or then it's up to you to return it to stock.
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Old 01-25-2025, 01:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megahurtz View Post
If you get permanent O2 codes in the ECU, one of your emissions ready will always fail. As long as all of your other things are passing, you will pass emissions.

The reason I say to handle it before you drive the car is because I've seen so many people not follow the flash first method and then the car takes forever for the fuel ready/pass to set. Like 2-3 fuel tanks worth and they keep failing until finally they do pass but its a huge headache.

So, can you pass emissions if you flash after the fact? Yeah, but beware of the above. Also, if you live in a certain state, who's to say they don't pass a law where you can no longer have the exhaust system fail? Then what will you have to do? The only way is to put all of the O2's and Cats back on until it goes ready. So by simply flashing first, you avoid all of the headache. Just a recommendation based on the numerous people I have contacting me for help because of they flashed after the codes were already set.




snackbartuning.com

So what’s the proper sequence? Install tune, install headers, start car? Or install headers, install tune, start car?
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Old 01-25-2025, 07:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf556 View Post
So what’s the proper sequence? Install tune, install headers, start car? Or install headers, install tune, start car?
Either sequence should work. The ECM does not validate any sensor input until you start the car.

The idea is to have everything in an "acceptable" state both before and after installation, where "acceptable" can mean stock hardware+stock tune or upgraded hardware+new tune.
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