[Number 3]

Love all the posts on how TODAYS power grid can’t handle TOMORROWS energy needs. It won’t stay the same. Time and demand will address the need. It always does.

[puppykat33]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Love all the posts on how TODAYS power grid can’t handle TOMORROWS energy needs. It won’t stay the same. Time and demand will address the need. It always does.

And it is the truth, it cannot. And back to the problem everyone has with this, if it was market demand IE consumers wanted it that's one thing
Do you realize how many trillions of taxpayer dollars and how long it will take to over haul our current power grid?
its going to take longer than the 2035 mandate to get the infrastructure in place so yet again the gov is putting the cart before the horse.


But the PROBLEM is the gov legislating it, telling you what is good for you.After it has been proved otherwise.


So take for instance if the GOV decides since one of the major killers of people in the US is obesity, which it is, and the health problems linked to obesity. That they think its ok to legislate what you will, and will not eat. IE no more McDonalds unless they only serve these ingredients in their food. And on down the line. Is that ok with you?
People don't have a problem with better . BUT People should have a problem with the GOV legislating what ever the hell they see fit.

And if you don't, then you my friend need to give me and my friends all of your money and earnings for the next 10 years since you are ok with over reaching gov legislation..
I wrote it on a piece of paper and me and my friends all agree its a good idea for you to do. So we all sighed it and itis now law..Sorry

[Camaro_QC]

Can't wait to see what the electric Camaro will be like. Already told my dealer to call me when they are out cause I'll be one of the first to look at it!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by puppykat33

And it is the truth, it cannot. And back to the problem everyone has with this, if it was market demand IE consumers wanted it that's one thing
Do you realize how many trillions of taxpayer dollars and how long it will take to over haul our current power grid?
its going to take longer than the 2035 mandate to get the infrastructure in place so yet again the gov is putting the cart before the horse.


But the PROBLEM is the gov legislating it, telling you what is good for you.After it has been proved otherwise.


So take for instance if the GOV decides since one of the major killers of people in the US is obesity, which it is, and the health problems linked to obesity. That they think its ok to legislate what you will, and will not eat. IE no more McDonalds unless they only serve these ingredients in their food. And on down the line. Is that ok with you?
People don't have a problem with better . BUT People should have a problem with the GOV legislating what ever the hell they see fit.

And if you don't, then you my friend need to give me and my friends all of your money and earnings for the next 10 years since you are ok with over reaching gov legislation..
I wrote it on a piece of paper and me and my friends all agree its a good idea for you to do. So we all sighed it and itis now law..Sorry

GM is going to be EV centric by 2035 by their own decision. To be relevant they have to. And if they aren’t great at it they will be done.

We are looked at as the Luddites in this discussion. Only 30,000 people bought a Camaro last year while Tesla sold 500,000. Even from a GM point of view “performance” cars were 2% of sales.

GM and VW are both spending/investing in charging stations and infrastructure. They both understand that for this to work you need range combined with ease of charging.

It is very likely we will not see a Gen7 Camaro with an ICE. However, I do believe we will see a Gen7 Camaro. GM’s EV strategy will enable a modular approach that can make it more cost effective to develop lower volume cars. That’s the hope.

[LateBrakeU2]

Smoke em if ya got em boys!

[Realist]

This past summer we had very high winds in Illinois. A few hundred thousand people without power for many days. Our business power pole on the ground with its transformer for 7 days, yep 7 days. These types of outages are supported by many out of state crews. So we had 15 truckers unable to work because ComEd couldn’t get a crew out for days upon days to move the down lines blocking the driveway. No power to the building so office work was basically at an standstill.
We have also spent a few nights in hotels from multiple days of outages for our home.

The issue is all improvements to infrastructure will cost tremendous amounts of taxpayer $’s. Are apartment complexes gonna install a charger for each parking space or just have power cords everywhere to trip over. Everything is getting more costly while they work to kill jobs. It’s crazy. Next we will see corporate America provide EV days, these will be days where you are off because you lost power and your EV didn’t get charged to make it into work, it will be a paid day off.

[90503]

It's a shame the Camaro isn't selling better than it is. Look at all the engine and driving options available now. Even the most expensive Camaro will likely cost a lot less than any new EV Camaro. By the time one comes out, it will be your own folly for not getting an ICE one now or in the very near future.

If they keep building a Camaro as an EV at some point, so be it. The ICE models aren't selling worth a darn. I can't blame GM for going EV on Camaro. But I think overall GM is mistaken in how popular their EVS will be. They need to be affordable to sell well. People pay higher prices for Teslas, for sure. But those are Teslas. Just because GM and Chevy start making EVs, doesn't mean they will be an instant success.

Announcing the end of ICE production by 2040 might make for good PC headlines in the short term, but realistically I can't see it as a good business decision. The world runs on oil and will continue to do so long past 2040.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by ModernCamaroZ28Fan

People seem to forget that the Camaro hasn't really been a pure muscle car in a while, it's been evolving into a sports car since the beginning.

1st - mid 2nd generation: Muscle car
2nd mid - 5th generation: Muscle car with some sports car aspects
6th generation: A sports car with some muscle car aspects
7th generation: Rather likely a electric sporty EV

The Camaro has never been advertised as a Muscle car. When the Camaro came out in 67 Chevy advertised it as the closest thing to a Corvette.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Love all the posts on how TODAYS power grid can’t handle TOMORROWS energy needs. It won’t stay the same. Time and demand will address the need. It always does.

Here is something else you are overlooking...

Let's, for the sake of argument, say that, sure, we can get the power grid to handle adequate output for all EVs we will have. But what about the end points of the power distribution?

Do you think homeowners currently without a garage will just be like, "yep, let's spend tens of thousands of dollars to build a garage for the EV", or pay for setting up a charger on the side of the streets? I shudder to think of the cost. And let's not forget apartment property groups that will have to spend a huge amount of money to accommodate for a lot more EVs from all the tenants will have to charge. Do you think they will also just be happy to submit to it?

There will be a lot of pushback. Again, I have nothing against EVs, but you gotta be realistic about it and it's definitely not something that should be shoved down people's throat.

TL; DR: You gonna pay for that?

Sent from toaster or something

[triggerjerk]

The utilities are not going to swallow the costs for this.
If/when the grid capacity increases, eveyone connected to the grid will pay for it.

Here is an example of it already happening. A friend of mine is an attorney for the local public utilities commission. Guess what? The utilities TOTALLY CONTROL the commission (responsible for allowing/approving rates) and the legislature. They have raised prices via a tax in order to make money on people WHO INSTALL SOLAR PANELS ON THEIR HOMES. That's right, you make your own power and it doesn't matter as long as you are on the grid, you are being taxed for grid access. Even if your panels generate more than you need and the excess goes back to the grid you still pay the tax.

You think expansion for ev capacity will be any different?

[MichaelG]

Black outs in So Cal for running AC unit during the day. Now I have to charge a pickup truck for work and a family SUV every day. How is that gonna work? I don’t own enough space on the face of the earth to bolt down solar panels needed.

Guess we’ll just have to level open land to have a sea of solar panels and pray it’s not cloudy that day.

I hope Southern California Edison will be kind too. I’ll be at their mercy. I’ll have no choice.

[LT4Greg]

Doesn’t anyone remember all the discussion about mass transit systems that will be EV when the politicians and others were talking about the US adopting these standards? Their idea to me seems that all working people and common folks will be riding in EV trains and EV buses to work and errands in the cities because ultimately the costs will be too much for the working class due to increased electric bills and costs to convert over to electric grids, etc. Also, EV vehicles will be expensive to maintain such as battery replacement. Oh I forgot that airplanes will be solar powered too!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by samurai

Come guys, we are talking about 15 years from now. Electric engines are more efficient to get the power down since they don't depend on RPM. I am pretty sure a purely electric designed Camaro in 2035 will absolutely destroy what a current ZL1 delivers in terms of real world performance. Even right now a Tesla S Plaid is only 7 seconds behind the ZL1 1LE Nürburgring time.

Of course I love the V8 rumble and I think Chevy has to really think about how to make electric cars as emotional. But I am absolutely sure that in 2035 electric cars will have huge ranges like 1000 miles that can be filled up within a good amount of time while you are buying groceries or are at the gym, daily stuff like that.

As much as I am a V8 fan, I am also a performance fan. And I think there is no way around electric cars if you want to really have improvement compared to what we have now. Just look at the Corvette, where they had to go Midendgine to actually get better performance since they went against a barrier that can only be beat with very expensive parts with a front engine design.

Also: Carmakers don't live from one country alone, even though the NA market is pretty big. But with China, Europe and other regions going really strict in terms of emission laws for cars, if you want to be competitive and even be able to sell your cars in the future, you have to go electric fast. VWs ID3 is currently one of the best selling cars in Europe. Pretty sure ID4 and the other upcoming models will be a huge success too.

Very thoughtful post. Only thing I would push back on is this....

But I am absolutely sure that in 2035 electric cars will have huge ranges like 1000 miles that can be filled up within a good amount of time while you are buying groceries or are at the gym, daily stuff like that.

Most people will charge at home, so the idea of a 1,000 mile battery is very unlikely except for very rare and specific use cases. Military comes to mind. And even then, I expect military will lean more towards hydrogen fuel cells. Once you get to 300 - 400 mile ranges, most users can plug in on Sunday and have more than enough range to get them through an entire week’s driving. And nothing stops them from plugging in any other day of the week when needed. The only time plugging in away from home factors in would be on long trips where you drive more than the range of the vehicle in one day. For me, that would be 3 - 4 times a year.

This would all be true at least for those who have a garage or a dedicated home parking spot. For those who live in apartments, separate charging arrangements will still have to be managed.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by puppykat33

well gents its not the performance aspect most have a problem with. The ISSUE MOST people have a problem with is the gov mandating this EV crap on the premis that it is better for the environment which if you have done any real research into lithium you would know it is in fact NOT better. It takes massive amounts of energy to properly dispose of, and it and puts off toxic gases that are worse for the environment than the emission put out by car engines. The reason you don't hear about it is that no one is effectively disposing of these lithium battery's yet, they are just piling up... I think china has some 5 million tons per yer produced and just sitting around because they cant dispose of it properly. Not to mention the lithium mines are horrific.. so this is the problem, when the government say its better and low information masses of people just buy what they are selling without actually looking into it.


The problem with agendas pushed like this is the people pushing them rarely ever consider the 2nd 3rd 4th order long term consequences of them. So lets take California's no gas engines by 2025/2035 and play a game. 1st order effect= all gas engine producers/manufactures in the state will half to close or convert resulting a loss of jobs, Gas engine aftermarket parts industries again loss of jobs. 2nd = gas stations will now half to convert to charging stations/gas stations in turn the price goes up of they simply close because they cant afford to keep up again loss of jobs. 3rd=price/cost for truckers delivering goods to the state will go up due to increased fuel cost in the state so now the price of everything goes up. 4th California already has an unstable power grid which cannot keep up with current demand at times so where are they going to find all the extra power so ppl can charge their cars at night? 5th since we have established the 1000% increase in demand for power where will it come from? are they going to build a nuclear plant? Hydro? ??? All horrible for the enviroment.. ALL of which defeat the clean green power initiate which they are trying to accomplish. not to mention how toxic lithium production/disposal is
Wake up people and research for your self.

I could go into who holds controlling interest in lithium ie stock holders from mining to charging stations and i bet you will find a lot of senators with stock holdings in these markets but this sounds like conspiracy theory and i like to just stick with FACTS
FACT= EV is not better for the environment..

FACT= since most of the us power comes from fossil fuels you are actually putting off more pollution charging your car than if you had a regular engine. Dont believe me? go look it up.


Speculation=But i bet this EV push it is better for someones wallet..

Government mandated solutions:. Not really. California and several European regions are mandating the condition, automakers are moving forward with their interpretation of how to meet the condition. California and Europe are saying “15 years from now you can only sell zero emission vehicles”. Most (but not all) automakers have decided that EV is the best approach. Some are still holding out hope that hydrogen fuel cells may gain some traction. Personally, I doubt it, except for over the road truck fleets and military. Since there is so much development on electric vehicles, most automakers can at least see a path towards progress there over the next 15 years. GM and VW just seem to have jumped ahead of the pack.

Used batteries piling up with no plan for disposal: Not an issue (yet) for a number of reasons. One, the failure rate of Li-ion batteries to date is minuscule. A lot of that is because there aren’t millions on the road yet, but a lot of it is because they have not been failing. The other thing is there is a lot of energy (no pun intended) extended on finding second use plans for used car lithium batteries. The BEVs (and hybrids) using lithium ion batteries do not use the full potential of their capability. Typically something in the 60% range. This is done to prevent deep cycling the batteries, reducing battery life. So, when a battery is no longer suitable for use in a car, it can still be usable for other duties, particularly energy storage and release.

GM mentioned having all of their plants running on 100% recyclable energy by 2030. The central approach to doing this is re-commissioning used BEV battery packs to store and release energy to power the plants. Used batteries are already being used to store power generated by windmills and solar panels so that they can still distribute energy when the wind ain’t blowin’ and the sun ain’t shinin’. But wait....didn’t I say that batteries aren’t really failing in cars yet? So where do windmills and solar farms get these used batteries? From vehicles totalled in car accidents and, more importantly, from automaker test fleet vehicles that cannot be sold to the public when their testing days are over.

No doubt a lot has to be done to sure up the power grid, especially in California. I can only assume that this work is already being done. In Michigan, where I live, the two major power companies are both VERY ACTIVE in bringing hydro, solar, and wind sourced power plants on line to replace coal powered plants. So they are adding capacity and do so in a very environmentally friendly way. I can only assume California is moving to do the same, maybe more.