IWIS is here! lol

[frankwjr]

With all of builds goin on and various discussions about RPM limits and valve float when either doin a C or H/C, I figured what the f and see if I can stir up the pot a wee bit more(who says I can't have fun?)...anyway it seems the the vast major of cam spring kits are of the .660 double spring variety...

how many made sure to shim the springs(int & exh) to the cam lobe lift? this is the key to engine survival at high rpm...just because you slap a big spring on does not mean it automatically becomes a 8k+ nascar motor...not that the majority of us even want that...but even at lower RPM's proper spring height plays a critical role in valve train longevity...everything matched up makes a big diff...

now back to stirn' the pot...there has been several mentions of the below on a couple of other threads but here it is in all its glory...


on the left a conical spring and on the right stock...anybody want to take a guess at the max lift of the conical?

it's a lot more than you would think...and coupled with the correct cam lobe profile(PatG anyone?) the RPM potential is massive....with ZERO float.

any guess yet?(no cheatin on the web dammit!)...how does .630 sound?,,,too good to be true? and the cam lobes? .626 int/exh...

less weight on the retainer and the top 50% of the spring plus coil design makes this(for me) a no brainer drop in...and the cost? you would be surprised...

let the games begin!

btw - almost forgot! spring is 140/400...

[racesloth]

In for the discussion...

I have though about conical springs for my Pat G .615 cam on TSP .362 endurance lobes for a while now - but was going to go with dual .660 PACs just because everbody does.

But Chevy feels behives are good enough to guarantee on the LS9... Hmm

[lazerlemonta]

Simple fact is this........ when GM used the grand am cup cam in the GMPP head combo they came with LS6 springs and turned those motors 7300 lap after lap lol What does the LS3 upgraded head cam kit come with...... oh yeah LS3 springs and they turn the limiter up to 7000 in the tune..... I see a trend here. Does GM offer a dual valve spring?

[acammer]

Also here for the discussion. GPI SS3 stick going in soon and it's hard to argue with the proven track record of the BTR springs, but I'm always willing to hear arguments for an alternative.

[xc_SS/RS]

subscribing to this one.

gotta go light on the valve train side to keep it stable for high RPM running.

doesn't PSI have a higher lift beehive than their 1511ML that fit LS heads? that could be the cure for some of the higher lift (.625+) cam guys wanting to spin more RPM's

[frankwjr]

Doug(hihosilver) has a bud runnin these...the amount of peeps runnin them also esp. in dirt(infinite ability to control the valve across the entire rpm range) and via confirmation that a lot of builders(those with eyes open and embrace new tech) are usin these help me make the decision...

dual spring design utilizes the inner spring to control harmonics AND the fact that both springs RUB against each other by design creates more heat...and in almost every case dual springs are designed to fit a RANGE of lobe lifts...DEMANDING in almost every case shimming to get the correct installed height. And yes both beehive and conical do too but...

with all tech early failures can create a false impression that the design is flawed...further refinements in design but more importantly the material used spec and quality have proven that the beehive spring is SUPERIOR to the dual spring in EVERY application(yeah like I said when I started this...stir the f'n pot!)

I am glad that Phil(lazerlemonta) has brought up the fact that GM offers/ed the LS3 top end kit that had heads/cam...reuse P/R and lifters..and a tune code for the dealer to reprog the comp to set the rev limiter to 7k! for those that need add info https://sdparts.com/i-20049636-chevr...yABEgJuVPD_BwE
and it comes with a WARRANTY! lol!

I(ahem-to myself) have proven that a simple spring/P/R/trunnion upgrade on a stock short block with supporting bolt's and most importantly - A FREAKIN GOOD TUNE by dynoSteve at RDP - can take an otherwise anemic stock Camaro and turn it into (again IMHO) an animal! along with the 3.91 upgrade the car feels like a miata...hahahaha

the motor has been regularly turned to 7k ish on both street and at the 1/4(always warm up the motor!) and during burnouts I have seen the needle swing up 8k several times....and I finally found the limiter on my last race last season goin against a black 'vette for the 2nd time...1st smoked his a$$ and he was PISSED..instead of goin back to the pits and coolin down the clutch like we need to...I f'd up and ran him again for sh!ts and giggles..and my 2 -3 it felt like the motor fell outta the car at 7250..'vette just walked away...musta made his day...sigh...

point is the motor has just shrugged these off as like WTF? that the best you got? lol

but I digress - back on point!

this Sat weather looks good, hope to get the girl into the 11's as is to prove to myself that it is possible...either way it's gonna allow me to add more data points to the equation so as I factor options movin forward they with be based on weaknesses revealed. after that the motor is going to conveniently develop a disturbing tick(to me-lulz) requiring dissection to determine cause..and therefore allowing me to perform the necessary upgrades(I hope my LPW cover comes soon - wanna have a BIG upgrade party wahoo!) and after proper breakin along with any data loggin/tune tweakin needed on dynoSteve's custom tune, it's gonna be..yup..you guessed it..back to the track! I have not located a dyno close by that would do a couple of pull for a reasonable price nor do I really need it..it's just #'s and the only thing that counts is that little slip of paper you get at the end of the run.

So in addition to the pot stirrin I am also puttin my butt and $$ on the line...pass or fail it's ON ME...I DO NOT want the ability to blame anybody else for failure but more importantly not to have to share any credit in SUCCESS! f that sh!t...and sharin this info plus what I have done to my ride in my sig(still nobody wants to call out my 3/8's P/R's..sigh) is my contribution to the cause...since it's all really basic sh!t...what's most important? me(you)..the driver...the one variable that you have ultimate control over and is the hardest to control!

so whether it's karma, luck, my research or a combo of all 3 that has allowed me to acquire a cam that also features PG .368 custom lobes ground on a 8620 by Cam Motion...and the .626 cam lobe is SPECIFICALLY ground to provide high rpm stability, lower noise, longer valve spring life and can rev signif higher than comp hyd grinds..matched to the comp conical at .630 is like a match made in heaven..providing installed spring height is within spec the limiting factor WILL be the stock rotating assm..and that's the way it should be...

so fingers cross movin forward and I plan to update my various threads as the data starts to come in. I am excited to install the LPW with the BMR bushings..gives me a chance to verify the R&P wear pattern and give the internals a quick eyeball...the Ford s-spring posi mod on its own has made a significant diff and improvement in the way the rear behaves...much more consistently..almost feels like a locker goin around corners 'cause the inner tire will start to spin throwin rocks and shit..at low speed...but not annoyin...zero chatter..and when drag racin both D/R's just hook...

ea gads...too much joe in the 'mornin again! lol...you all have a fantastic weekend...appreciate ya takin the time to slog thru the above...

any disagreement please provide factual evidence to support your point..I DO NOT know it all(almost heh heh) and encourage dialog 'cause I keep learnin, don't plan on stoppin and am havin way to much fun! PEACE

[xc_SS/RS]

what are the pressures of the conical spring?

[Redhawt]

I considered conical springs at one point, came across an older thread about a failure of said springs. The added insurance of the second spring keeping the valve from falling into the block (should one fail) is the reason why I went duals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[racesloth]

LS9 LSA and LT4 come single springs on supercharged motors - seems chevy has some faith in them...

[acammer]

Originally Posted by racesloth

LS9 LSA and LT4 come single springs on supercharged motors - seems chevy has some faith in them...

Chevy also has faith in the LS3 style timing chain dampener - the General does pretty good, but he doesn't get everything right...

[frankwjr]

Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS

what are the pressures of the conical spring?

in the first post 140/400...yo u gonna come tomorrow if the weather holds? grab the bushing and bring it if so..if not..well..

[frankwjr]

[QUOTE=Redhawt;10102375]I considered conical springs at one point, came across an older thread about a failure of said springs. The added insurance of the second spring keeping the valve from falling into the block (should one fail) is the reason why I went duals.

how old? read my post again about early design issues..EVERYTHING has these types of probs..and they FIX them..

[xc_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by frankwjr

in the first post 140/400...yo u gonna come tomorrow if the weather holds? grab the bushing and bring it if so..if not..well..

interesting, any idea if it's lighter than a PSI 1511?

Not gonna be able to make it tomorrow unfortunately, i'll be working. but i think the next weekend i should be able to make it. if not we can work out a time and meet in frederick

[frankwjr]

definitely lighter..by how much? but there is no denying it provides better valve control.
and tks..we will get this transaction done! l8tr