[principia]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

... when it comes to staying in the automotive press with the introduction of new trim levels.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...ns/ar-BB15z2sW

It seems that every year Ford is rolling out a new Mustang that keeps the brand in the news. I don't even follow this that closely, but off the top of my head I can name the Boss, Bullitt, Shelby GT350, Shelby GT500 and I think there's performance packs as well as a higher level EcoBoost, and now the Mach 1.

Not saying Mustang's are better cars, but the marketing seems to be better. New trim levels mean more road testing, reviews and write ups.

Where's IROC Z, Z/28, and Berlinetta?

When the car isn’t as good, they have to focus on marketing. 😂

Seriously though, Ford does better marketing. And auto journalists tend to be biased against GM.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by chaospiece

I've never understood the love for high reving engines.
My mustang revs higher than my Camaro but it doesn't pull, so what's the point? High pitched sound that starts to overlap?
It's fake and annoying when cars are reving but they're not going.
Yes the engine components are spinning faster but what force are they putting out and how much resistance does it sustain?
I think people misinterpret horsepower all together.

600 hp dohc flat plane crank with low torque will have limited use and owners will brag about numbers they can't use on most tracks. I find this move silly and probably painful when maintenance is released by GM for these engines.

I was never that thrilled with my 2015 GT . It pulled good up high but my 2013 C6 just killed it down low.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

I was never that thrilled with my 2015 GT . It pulled good up high but my 2013 C6 just killed it down low.

I'm not surprised. The refreshed C6 had 430 hp and 424 ft-lbs of torque from a larger displacement pushrod (vs 435 hp and 400 ft-lbs in the 5.0 2015 GT), and the C6 is something like 500 lbs lighter than the S550 GT.

That said, the Gen 3 Coyote has more mid range torque and more peak torque than the Gen 2 Coyote, which helps. But the Gen 3 still loves to rev - and has a flat high rpm hp curve.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by principia

When the car isn’t as good, they have to focus on marketing. 😂

Seriously though, Ford does better marketing. And auto journalists tend to be biased against GM.

When have you seen a Mustang in a cool commercial? I don't watch TV anymore, so I wouldn't know (just the streaming services). I can only recall burnouts and high octane type marketing from Dodge commercials.

I don't think journalists are biased against GM - why would they be? I was a GM/Camaro guy for the longest time (until I bought my 2018 GT). The Camaro's handling and chassis (and engine) has received TONS of props from all the publications since the Alpha chassis debuted in the Camaro. They just don't like the overall package around it (ergos, styling, visibility, livability, etc.) - which isn't unheard of.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

When have you seen a Mustang in a cool commercial? I don't watch TV anymore, so I wouldn't know (just the streaming services). I can only recall burnouts and high octane type marketing from Dodge commercials.

I don't think journalists are biased against GM - why would they be? I was a GM/Camaro guy for the longest time (until I bought my 2018 GT). The Camaro's handling and chassis (and engine) has received TONS of props from all the publications since the Alpha chassis debuted in the Camaro. They just don't like the overall package around it (ergos, styling, visibility, livability, etc.) - which isn't unheard of.

It's mostly the livability and visibility that get the bad reviews for the Camaro.

There are a few things I would want from a Mustang like the fully digital instrument gauge cluster.

And again, inventory. I can always see at least 5 Mustangs at any given local Ford dealers, while the GM dealers would be lucky to have a single Camaro.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

It's mostly the livability and visibility that get the bad reviews for the Camaro.

There are a few things I would want from a Mustang like the fully digital instrument gauge cluster.

And again, inventory. I can always see at least 5 Mustangs at any given local Ford dealers, while the GM dealers would be lucky to have a single Camaro.

I'm actually the opposite - I think fully digital gauge clusters are a little gimmicky. I've never understood the need for a digital screen that mimics two real round gauges. My wife's Volvo XC90 has one, and while it's cool at first, it just becomes common place and stays in the same setting the whole time - two round gauges.

I guess I can see the benefit for the track screens where the RPM band stretches out long across the gage cluster.

Anyway, I have the GT Premium (not the plus), which comes w/ nice looking simple and very legible analog gauges with a small digital screen between that shows pertinent info., and I've never missed having the 12" digital cluster. To each his own, I guess.

How do you like the analog gauges on the Camaro? To me they look busier than the Mustang gauges, which may make them slightly less legible overall (i.e., extra tick marks at each major tick, red circle inside the perimeter of the numbers, and a divided white line outside of the numbers creating the extra tick marks, the font is in italics and changes sizes within the speedo, tick spacing changes beyond 100 mph, etc.). I remember my old LT1 powered Trans Am did something similar where the spacing between tick marks wasn't consistent. I never understood why.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I'm actually the opposite - I think fully digital gauge clusters are a little gimmicky. I've never understood the need for a digital screen that mimics two real round gauges. My wife's Volvo XC90 has one, and while it's cool at first, it just becomes common place and stays in the same setting the whole time - two round gauges.

I guess I can see the benefit for the track screens where the RPM band stretches out long across the gage cluster.

Anyway, I have the GT Premium (not the plus), which comes w/ nice looking simple and very legible analog gauges with a small digital screen between that shows pertinent info., and I've never missed having the 12" digital cluster. To each his own, I guess.

How do you like the analog gauges on the Camaro? To me they look busier than the Mustang gauges, which may make them slightly less legible overall (i.e., extra tick marks at each major tick, red circle inside the perimeter of the numbers, and a divided white line outside of the numbers creating the extra tick marks, the font is in italics and changes sizes within the speedo, tick spacing changes beyond 100 mph, etc.). I remember my old LT1 powered Trans Am did something similar where the spacing between tick marks wasn't consistent. I never understood why.

I definitely preferred the gauges on my C7 Corvette and even the RX-8 where you have the nice big tach in the middle. That's how sports cars should do it IMO, especially for something high-revving like the Mustang GT w/Gen 3 Coyote.

The analog speedo in the Camaro is useless, just like the one in the C7 Corvette. I get it, it looks cool to have it go all the way to 330 km/h or 200 MPH, but it makes the speedo useless for city driving. I personally like how VW does it in their cars - the ticks below highway speeds(80 km/h or 50 MPH) have a different scale versus speeds above that. Makes it still useful for city driving. Or you know, just do away with the analog speedo altogether and free up that real estate.

Now, for the trims with HUD, I am willing to overlook the gauges in the Camaro. I can get the RPM band with the HUD track mode. If you don't, those issues I mentioned become more apparent.

I know someone with a C7 and he told me the digital tach gets very laggy on the track. I never owned mine long enough to see a track to see if that's a widespread issue.

[s346k]

even the NOT digital tach in my camaro is slow and inaccurate. when the car was stock, shifting at "6500" was actually 6350. now i have to rev it to what looks like 7200 to shift at 6800. the factory gm tachs are slow and inaccurate and have been since the dawn of time. what it boils down to is looks and preference. i don't like digital gauges. i bought a shift light to fix the tach issues when doing general horseplay. i don't think the 2-300 rpm difference would matter as much on track as long as you keep it out of the rev limiter.

i ran a cammed gs c6 this weekend and ran 2nd gear into the limiter (6900) because i wasnt paying attention. tach looked like it was showing 7300. what is this, a foxbody?

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

My wife used to have a 2005 RX-8 and I did like driving that car. But it was the auto so it had less hp than the manual which was unfortunate. That said, seeing that pic, the gauges still look modern even being a 16+ year old design.

I've heard a similar complaint about the laggy tach and overall lagginess of the screens on the C7 - that's a bummer to hear about again. I'd really like to get a low mileage 2019 C7 Z06 in a year or two, but probably won't happen because kids. I take all 3 of them regularly in the GT on drives or to the park, so I'd miss being able to do that if I had a Z06.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by s346k

even the NOT digital tach in my camaro is slow and inaccurate. when the car was stock, shifting at "6500" was actually 6350. now i have to rev it to what looks like 7200 to shift at 6800. the factory gm tachs are slow and inaccurate and have been since the dawn of time. what it boils down to is looks and preference. i don't like digital gauges. i bought a shift light to fix the tach issues when doing general horseplay. i don't think the 2-300 rpm difference would matter as much on track as long as you keep it out of the rev limiter.

i ran a cammed gs c6 this weekend and ran 2nd gear into the limiter (6900) because i wasnt paying attention. tach looked like it was showing 7300. what is this, a foxbody?

This reminds me of the TrackDay channel on Youtube who has a 2019 A8 Z06. He talks about how you can "miss" a shift with the auto in manual/paddle mode, because of the delay between when you hit the paddle to call for a shift and the time it takes the trans to actually react and shift, which is about 1/2 second. He said you have to hit the paddle early, and if you don't hit it early enough, it won't register the shift in time and the engine will hit the rev limiter, and then has to rev back down to 6k rpms before you can shift. And by then, it has forgotten that you wanted to shift so you have to hit the paddle again to actually shift. That issue makes me want to avoid the A8 IF I decide to proceed with a Z06 in the future, even though the A8 is quicker than the M7. M7 would be more fun anyway, and likely fast enough (for a while, I'm sure).

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by s346k

even the NOT digital tach in my camaro is slow and inaccurate. when the car was stock, shifting at "6500" was actually 6350. now i have to rev it to what looks like 7200 to shift at 6800. the factory gm tachs are slow and inaccurate and have been since the dawn of time. what it boils down to is looks and preference. i don't like digital gauges. i bought a shift light to fix the tach issues when doing general horseplay. i don't think the 2-300 rpm difference would matter as much on track as long as you keep it out of the rev limiter.

i ran a cammed gs c6 this weekend and ran 2nd gear into the limiter (6900) because i wasnt paying attention. tach looked like it was showing 7300. what is this, a foxbody?

If you want to talk about crappy tach, the tach on the RX-8 straight-up lies about the RPM. I actually did some math by comparing the true RPM with speed, gear ratio and tire specs and the displayed RPM. Turns out RX-8 tach is off by about 7% or so. So even at the fuel cut which is 9500 RPM on the tach, you are actually only at 8900 RPM. The rotary still loves to rev, but it turns out that the 9000+ RPM thing is a lie.

Digital gauges tend to keep up a bit better. Supposedly, Lexus LFA opted for a digital tach because in neutral, the V10 revved so fast(it sounds awesome enough for someone to rev in neutral), an analog tach simply can't keep up. I don't know how accurate the C7 gauge is. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

My wife used to have a 2005 RX-8 and I did like driving that car. But it was the auto so it had less hp than the manual which was unfortunate. That said, seeing that pic, the gauges still look modern even being a 16+ year old design.

I've heard a similar complaint about the laggy tach and overall lagginess of the screens on the C7 - that's a bummer to hear about again. I'd really like to get a low mileage 2019 C7 Z06 in a year or two, but probably won't happen because kids. I take all 3 of them regularly in the GT on drives or to the park, so I'd miss being able to do that if I had a Z06.

The 10th Gen Civics actually have a very similar overall gauge cluster design to the RX-8, and I dig that. Those 8th and 9th Gen Civic gauges are more interesting, though.

Note that the C7 gauge lag supposedly only happens when my friend is driving hard at the track. He doesn't have the issue on the street and neither did I. He also said a lot of electronics in his C7 GS get very irresponsive when he is tracking. Again, no idea if it's an isolated issue for him or a thing with all C7s.

BTW, C7 M7 isn't as good as the Camaro M6. The extra 7th gear makes it easier to select the wrong gear. The M6 in the Camaro is just a lot more intuitive to use.

[UnknownJinX]

Just thought I'd revive this thread because, well, I managed to drive a Mustang today. A friend got a GT(no PP AFAIK) with 6-speed and he doesn't know how to drive a stick. He got it because of the awesome deal the Ford dealer was giving on the car. It was advertised for CAN$41k brand new and he got a pretty good lease deal.

Anyway, this is something quick and dirty without too many details, just my initial, subjective impressions.

I like the Coyote engine a lot personally. It's decently torquey. It's not as torquey as the Camaro, but I think it deserves a little more credit than what I was giving it before I tried it. It sounds pretty great as well, though the exhaust is very loud when cruising around in Sport mode.

That said, the MT82 especially just doesn't feel nearly as good as the TR-6060. TR-6060 has a very satisfying mechanical feel to it, has a short throw(I have the SS 1LE so even shorter than the standard SS), and the left to right travel is just about right while it's a little too short on the Mustang. Almost reminds me of my C7 7-speed. The stick shift is easy to work with for the most part, got the hang of it quickly. The auto rev match is a little more involving to turn on and off as there are no physical switches. Mustang steering wheel also feels a little awkward especially when you are trying to use the cruise control.

Visibility is okay in the Mustang. Better than the Camaro but IMO it's not by a large margin.

Gauge cluster is meh, but this is the basic one and it's kinda cool you can adjust the colour of the gauge. Not a big deal to me, though. The gauges in the centre are not very helpful IMO. They are too far away to look at. Oh and no HUD, I have heard it's not a thing for Mustangs. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

Back seats are more usable than the Camaro, but again, not by very much.

Overall(and memes aside), I think the Mustang is okay but personally think I made the right choice with the Camaro.

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[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Just thought I'd revive this thread because, well, I managed to drive a Mustang today. A friend got a GT(no PP AFAIK) with 6-speed and he doesn't know how to drive a stick. He got it because of the awesome deal the Ford dealer was giving on the car. It was advertised for CAN$41k brand new and he got a pretty good lease deal.

Actually that car does look like it has the Performance Pack. Are the tires Michelin PS4S?

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Actually that car does look like it has the Performance Pack. Are the tires Michelin PS4S?

Yeah it has the staggered PS4S tires, but I don't recall it having Brembo brakes.

Will have to double check the window sticker.

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