[1LE76G]

Originally Posted by Cito

Returned from another unsuccessful trip to Lincoln on Friday. Not really a surprise, but I am very frustrated with the 1LE and am hoping folks might have some ideas about what I experienced. My concerns are in no way an excuse for my performance at nationals, because it is about where it has always been, but I have a hard time not feeling as though I didn't have a fair shot at finishing higher up in the range of mediocrity where I live.



Car is a 2017 1LE with 15k miles. Has about 13 autocross events, with 8 this year. Running 285/19 and 305/19 RE-71r's.



West course run 1, got the car into a little bit (really very slight) of a tank slapper, and car goes into a "limp mode" keeping it from going any faster than 40 mph the remainder of the course. In the past, I thought fuel starvation might play a role in this, but the car had 3/4 tank in it. My car has done this before on one occasion with greater than a 1/2 tank in it with a similar but more pronounced tank slapper situation. Talk to the GM guys parked right next to me, and they have no clue what might have caused it and said it was not something they have experienced. The GM guys were very nice, and cool about me asking during competition. So, no complaints with them.



West course run 2, car goes into ice mode twice, but the run ends up being my fastest of the day.



West course run 3, the car does fine, but the run is impacted by feeling that I need to hold back a bit to allow for "a smooth transition from accelerator to brake" so as to avoid ice mode.



East course, run 1, the car goes into full on ice mode and I drive right through the wall of cones outside of the first left hand turn. DNF.



East course, run 2, remind myself to be smooth with the brake inputs, but still get a bit of ice mode in 3 corners.



East course, run 3, ran very conservatively, and still ran into an issue with brake feel. The brakes had a bit of a hard pedal, gravelly or marbly feeling. Some corners felt like ice mode, but others the car just felt terrible under braking.



I have had ice mode with this car throughout the summer, but it seems to be a worsening condition. I need to pull the wheels off and fully inspect the brakes. Doing this previously has not revealed any obvious concerns. Several of my friends think that there is air in the brake system. I am going to inspect the pads as well. Wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences or ideas that might be of help.


Any thoughts on the brake and "limp mode" issues would be appreciated. Hate to move to my civic Si as my primary autocross car because of these issues.

Switch to 305/30/19s for the RE71s or Rivals. Keep camber at a max of 3*, and if you're running aftermarket pads switch back to OEM for autocross. I just went through a few months of trial and error, and also talked to GM guys at Nats. Went to A7s 295 Front and 315 Rear with more aggressive DS1.11 Pads. If you even thought about braking aggressively you were in ice made. Switched back to square RE71s. Still getting some ice mode but not as much. However, I still get a lot of ABS interference with the DS1.11 so will be returning the stock pads.
The 17s and 18s, can accept the 19 ABS module, however installing it will probably be the easy part. Finding a 19 SS 1LE ABS module will most likely be the most difficult process of that. I really like this car and have enjoyed it, but this ABS stuff really pisses me off. Seriously considering buying a ZL1 1LE, and selling my 17 1LE if anyone might be interested. Lol

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by JRL1LE

Are u running 285/35/19 front/305/30/19 rear tires?, maybe the taller front tire is causing an issue, just a thought.

Likely these tires have the same OD (outside diameter). The aspect ratio is sidewall height vs width. Narrower tires will have a higher (bigger number) aspect ratio than wider tires. They typically render the same OD.

[JRL1LE]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Likely these tires have the same OD (outside diameter). The aspect ratio is sidewall height vs width. Narrower tires will have a higher (bigger number) aspect ratio than wider tires. They typically render the same OD.

I know what aspect ratio is, 285's are taller

285/35/19 RE71r OD= 26.8

305/30/19 RE71r OD= 26.2

[HawkeyeMike]

I just finished Nationals myself running my 2017 2SS in F Street. I hit Ice Mode on several of my runs, including my fastest. Ice Mode has frustrated me all year, and I pulled the trigger and ordered a 2020 2SS 1LE a couple months back (car should be in my garage in the next week or so - can't wait).
I too spoke with the GM AX team last week, and they gave me some details about the fix. They hired a guy specifically to fix the issue and it took him almost two years to get it right. The fix was put in place for 2019 on. GM won't be offering any kind of retro-fix for 2017. Also, even for the newer cars with the fix, you can still induce Ice Mode, but you'd be needing to be doing something "Very stupid" with the car in order for it to happen.
My co-driver was somehow able to avoid Ice Mode more often than me, and I attribute this to a smoother driving style. I'm more abrupt with my inputs than him, and I'm sure the abruptness has something to do with triggering Ice Mode. He's faster than me (he finished 16th and was the 2nd fastest non-M3 in F Street, I finished 24th), so I know it can be done (avoid Ice Mode, that is) and still run fast times. But, ultimately, I decided to move on to a car that wouldn't be so intrusive.
So, next year, on to either B Street or CAM-C, with Ice Mode issues in my past!
Mike

[Cito]

Thank you all. I have run into ice mode maybe once or less an event up until nationals, so I was in the "not too often" group before nationals. Been running the same size tires all year, so that seems less likely an issue, but I need to go to 305's up front anyway. I have stayed away from 305's after the R&S racing guy couldn't mount 305's on some 19x10's for us last year at nationals.

I was under the impression that the brake module and programming was the same years 17 and 18 for the 1LE, but perhaps that is wrong. I have run at Lincoln a few times this year, and guys I have been matching or beating in terms of raw times were running in the 135-137 second range over 2 days versus my 139. Its on me, because I just couldn't adjust to driving around the issue, but you really should be able to go into a corner and expect the car to stop especially with the mammoth brakes on the car. I had maybe 1 undisturbed run on both sides. Neither of my best runs was undisturbed by ice mode.



On another forum, Ron Williams posted that the surface seemed a lot different to him at nationals versus local events, which might be a factor in what happened. He is sure that part of the black tarry build up is sealant and not rubber. I am inclined to believe him because he is Ron Williams. Local Lincoln courses were frankly easier though probably also tighter than nationals, so that is part of the delta in my times as well. Also, some of those guys got ahold of Yoks, so that might be a factor. I have mad respect for what Jeff has done in his car given the issues, and for what Jeff and Mike Leeder did last year against that cheater M3 in FS.



As for irony, I drove a ASP/BSP 370z the past 2 years at nationals, and last year my best run was dashed by ice mode in that car.



I will post if I figure anything else out especially with the limp mod thing. Only thing I have found on this forum is that sometimes cars with headers contact a bundle of wires on the passenger side. I don't have headers, so it seems like a long shot, but I am going to check to see if there is anything I can see there or other places that might be electrical in nature. Thanks again.

[jwisjw]

Originally Posted by Cito

Thank you all. I have run into ice mode maybe once or less an event up until nationals, so I was in the "not too often" group before nationals. Been running the same size tires all year, so that seems less likely an issue, but I need to go to 305's up front anyway. I have stayed away from 305's after the R&S racing guy couldn't mount 305's on some 19x10's for us last year at nationals.

FWIW, ice mode was very limited to us as well before Nationals... Though we did end up changing shock settings in the front, which was drastic.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

By any chance do you run in the same region as Danny Kao?


He ran a CAM-C 2016 Camaro SS and he would often complain about 'ice mode'. I honestly never thought it was a thing until I watched it do it to him at ProSolo a couple of years ago.


I've never experienced it in my 1LE. I have used OEM, Hawk DTC-30 and DTC-60s with OEM and 305/RE71s.

Yeeeep Danny was in grid right next to me in his Civic on Saturday so he got to hear me complain about Ice-mode in real time lol and yea he's told me about dealing with it on his old car, it's definitely not as prevalent on the 1LEs (thank god) but on a slick and bumpy lot like we were at on Saturday it's inevitable when you are pushing it right on the limit like I was haha

We are going up to Pocono this weekend to run the infield, it's supposed to be a REALLY fast course setup so I'll report back if I have any issues.

[ABQautoxer]

FWIW, on my 2019 ZL1 ice mode is completely different than it was in the previous 2016-2018 cars. The hard pedal is much shorter in duration (I think Otis said around 200ms) and also seems to give more actual clamping force during that. Also, it does not require a pedal reset (release pedal, reapply). Add to that its much harder to invoke period. So it's not completely gone but its enough better I don't regret getting a 2019 despite the added cost.

[WAM]

So if 2019 was the fix year for ice mode, does that fix apply equally to both the '19 SS & '19 1LE? Or does the 1LE still enjoy an advantage with ice mode issues?

Does the 2020 bring anything autoX-useful, or is it strictly cosmetic?

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by rotis

It is possible to retrofit the 2019+ EBCM onto a 2017 or 2018, mine was a 2016, so it had no chance.

I am seriously curious where this notion keeps stemming from?

The reason I say this is because I’ve talked to a few people that work with ABS or have direct knowledge with it, on a professional level, that indicate this is very unlikely able to be done as simply as you say. There are changes with the way the modules communicate 2018 to 2019+. Outside of that, I know, for a fact all (and if not all, 99%) GM modules are blank when purchased and require a direct upload from GM service in respect to VIN or upload/download from the module being replaced in a specific car.

Maybe I’m incorrect, but I’d like some proof...

In regards to “ice mode”: In my 16 SS and my buddies 17 SS, I could get the car to do it in autox. The 1LE, I have not - not even a question. Than again, Ive done more autox in SS cars and more track in 1LE. Intensive multi-tasking (steering angle, brake application timing, brake amount or too much throttle-brake overlap/two-foot driving) or just very aggressive (switch-like) braking upsets the SS ABS. The 1LE, from what I’ve heard, is not different, but since its calibrated for wider, stickier tires and the tire/wheel/suspension setup keeps the car in better control keeps a larger margin and from upsetting the car as much.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by WAM

So if 2019 was the fix year for ice mode, does that fix apply equally to both the '19 SS & '19 1LE? Or does the 1LE still enjoy an advantage with ice mode issues?

Does the 2020 bring anything autoX-useful, or is it strictly cosmetic?

For sure SS. Not sure on 1LE, but maybe some small tweaks too, as I thought I recall a conversation the whole Camaro lineup was pretty much checked. ZL1/1LE may not have been touched.

[rotis]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I am seriously curious where this notion keeps stemming from?

I haven't done it myself, so I'm just relaying what I've been told. I'm getting this information from GM engineers who have done the swap, including the guy who was personally responsible for developing the 2019 abs fixes.

You need a 2019+ EBCM that has been programmed for the same brake / transmission / trim as your car to swap. They do come blank if you buy them new, so it has to either come out of the right car in a junkyard, or you need to find someone willing to flash it. I've been unsuccessful finding someone who is able to bench flash the units. The VIN is allowed to be mismatched by the system, unless you have more than 2 modules with mismatched VINs, then it triggers anti-theft stuff and you are hosed.

Every trim level had ABS calibration changes made for 2019 to address hard pedal except for the ZL1 1LE, since it didn't have the problem in the first place.

Clearly this retrofit is not something officially supported by GM, so you aren't going to be able to go into a dealership and ask them to do it. This whole thing seems like a risky enough endeavor that if I had a stock 2017 I'd just sell/trade it for a 2019+. If I had gone down the rabbit hole on mods with a 2017 I'd be shopping junkyards and wrecked car auctions.

There are no autox-related changes for 2020 that I know of.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by rotis

I haven't done it myself, so I'm just relaying what I've been told. I'm getting this information from GM engineers who have done the swap, including the guy who was personally responsible for developing the 2019 abs fixes.

You need a 2019+ EBCM that has been programmed for the same brake / transmission / trim as your car to swap. They do come blank if you buy them new, so it has to either come out of the right car in a junkyard, or you need to find someone willing to flash it. I've been unsuccessful finding someone who is able to bench flash the units. The VIN is allowed to be mismatched by the system, unless you have more than 2 modules with mismatched VINs, then it triggers anti-theft stuff and you are hosed.

Every trim level had ABS calibration changes made for 2019 to address hard pedal except for the ZL1 1LE, since it didn't have the problem in the first place.

Clearly this retrofit is not something officially supported by GM, so you aren't going to be able to go into a dealership and ask them to do it. This whole thing seems like a risky enough endeavor that if I had a stock 2017 I'd just sell/trade it for a 2019+. If I had gone down the rabbit hole on mods with a 2017 I'd be shopping junkyards and wrecked car auctions.

There are no autox-related changes for 2020 that I know of.

OK, cool. Thank you

[rotis]

Originally Posted by WAM

So if 2019 was the fix year for ice mode, does that fix apply equally to both the '19 SS & '19 1LE? Or does the 1LE still enjoy an advantage with ice mode issues?

Every brake/tire combination has a different ABS calibration. The rule of thumb is that if the car came from the factory with stickier tires, then it'll have a more performance-oriented ABS calibration.