[radz28]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Great work! I don’t blame you one bit for making the swap. That DSX aux pump is sketchy AF… punching the tank below the fuel line is a big no no in my book. This will be safer and function much better.

Yeah. I KNEW it when I went into it, but did it anyways because I was impatient and foolish. I was intimidated, too, for whatever the reason. I've changed 2-engines in an H2, and built one of those from a short block, and the other one from the crank up (that was I made a 408). I did all the assembly (machine work was done at a shop, obviously) and teardown myself, so that was a pretty big job. I've done many clutches and a couple torque converters, so I let this one intimidate me, lol. What a ding dong.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by radz28

Yeah. I KNEW it when I went into it, but did it anyways because I was impatient and foolish. I was intimidated, too, for whatever the reason. I've changed 2-engines in an H2, and built one of those from a short block, and the other one from the crank up (that was I made a 408). I did all the assembly (machine work was done at a shop, obviously) and teardown myself, so that was a pretty big job. I've done many clutches and a couple torque converters, so I let this one intimidate me, lol. What a ding dong.

Nothing wrong with being extra cautious when working on the fuel system my friend. I’ll freely admit that I paid my shop to do my Fore system even though it really isn’t rocket science. I just felt more comfortable letting a guy who plays with AN fittings everyday of his life do the work. Dave Steck is a super smart guy so I think a lot of people just felt like that was the best available option at the time. We simply have better options now.

[radz28]

ARG... I'm pulling the fuel tank again... At least it SEEMS like the aux' pump is coming on. I couldn't capture the data on the drive, but it seems to be coming on when I was commanding the REFLEX to trickle it in. I will get better data soon, but the behavior of the LOW SIDE PRESSURE indicated it was trickling fuel in, as commanded.

I cannot get the fuel gauge to read more than about 7/8 of a tank full, despite filling the tank until no more gurgling sound was heard, which is what I suspected was from fuel moving from the passenger's side saddle (where the filler neck is) to the driver's side. I fill until fuel was coming out of the filler neck. I drove for about 20-minutes, too, to see if that might help transfer any fuel from the passenger's side to the driver's side (if that's even a possibility), just in case, but the SCANNER never showed more than about 82.4% fuel level. So...

Off the tank comes again. At least it won't take as long this time, as I haven't reinstalled everything yet. The PITA will be draining a full tank of fuel... That's going to suck. Everything else, mostly, was pretty straight forward.

BUT - I think the problem is the crossover lines in the tank are tangling the float-up (or down, technically). I had a hard time connecting all of the OEM lines, in the tank, to the Katech bucket. A lot was due to extra stuff in the way because of the aux' pump. I was rushing a little, too, and was frustrated, so I think that's part of the reason I'm having this difficulty. I don't think I jacked the sensor, itself, up, but I might swap my OEM sensor over, just in case. I'm fairly certain it has to do with the lines, though, because that was just a HUGE PITA. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get that to work, but that's the goal. I won't be able to stand it if I can't get the gauge to read right.

Fingers crossed...

[radz28]

Probably my fault for not being deligent enough the first time, but I pulled the tank again, and realigned the lines, reinstalled the tank, filled the tank, and checked the gauge, and it reads full. It was a beesh to try to align all that crap to not interfere with any of the other crap in the tank, but it SEEMS like I’m successful, and I take responsibility in what happened the first time. No ill toward Katech or this bucket. It was a beesh to get in the tank, but everything seems okay. I haven’t driven him yet, but I expect it will be just fine.

KUDOS to Katech for a good product, as they usually do.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by radz28

Probably my fault for not being deligent enough the first time, but I pulled the tank again, and realigned the lines, reinstalled the tank, filled the tank, and checked the gauge, and it reads full. It was a beesh to try to align all that crap to not interfere with any of the other crap in the tank, but it SEEMS like I’m successful, and I take responsibility in what happened the first time. No ill toward Katech or this bucket. It was a beesh to get in the tank, but everything seems okay. I haven’t driven him yet, but I expect it will be just fine.

KUDOS to Katech for a good product, as they usually do.

Yeah there can be a LOT going on once you start adding multiple pumps into the OEM tank… I could hear the installers at my shop swearing about me all the way from my house lol…

[radz28]

Well - I don’t have a really definitive conclusion, but what I know is the gauge reads FULL with a FULL tank.

I spent at least an hour trying to juggle the transfer lines around the float, and confirming, as best I could, they would not be in the arc of the arm/float, as they articulated through their range of motion. It was nearly impossible to see inside the tank, with a flashlight, and get a tool, at the same time, to move the arm/float up and down, AND see the dang lines, but it seems like if it’s done right, the float actually passes beyond the same space as the lines. So - that is as good as I could get it. I did re-clock the “T” fitting on the new bucket, but I’m not sure that was a real problem. I noticed on a couple YT videos that this "T" seemed to point in the WRONG direction of it's line. The factory makes up for this by "rolling" the "T" over itself to point in the opposite direction to meet the line. I'm not sure why it does this, but that's what pictures and videos show. Because the OEM "T" hose is more rubbery, and flexible, this wasn't as, seemingly, a big deal, but Katech's "T" and lines were bigger and more rigid (not rubbery either), so they weren't as flexible. Rolling the Katech "T" over on itself, like the OEM "T", was not as easy without reclocking the "T" in the lines. Katech did say it was okay to do so, and I did it, even though it was what seemed to be THE SAME angle as stock. So - your mileage may vary, and I still would not imply this is a design fault or anything. I WOULD SAY to take your time here. That is all. No one else has had this issue, so just take your time. Therefore - I'm not judging my initially gauge problem with Katech's module. I freely admit I didn't take as much time as I should have, and I did rush a little. I'm fairly certain this was my doing.

Finally - I added some nutzerts and adel clamps to finalize everything for the new filter and lines. I’m finally at peace with this aspect. I used adhesive foam to insulate the lines from rubbing on the floor. If that was good enough for the factory to use on the fuel tank (from the tank to the body, I assume, to keep from rubbing or NVH), I figured it was good enough for me. A couple zipties were strung for just a little more security, but the bulk of the work is the nutzerts/adel clamps. I, also, added spacers to the floor brace to give a little more room for the additional fittings for the new filter. My ghetto (my natural habitat) coolant hose insulation also helped to prevent rubbing among the plastic OEM lines and connections. So - no rubbing with anything, nor NVH. AND - the filter addition and it's location don't add to less ground clearance or anything. It seems to take up less space than the DSX aux' kit. Also - under the hood - while I did have to buy a TMAP sensor extension (because of previous harness routing changes under the blower) because of eliminating the DSX breakout, under the fuse box, where the DSX controller initially was, is cleaned up a fair amount, as well as the additional harness for that system, too, so it's just a little cleaner under the hood. No one else but me would notice, but I see it, and one less system outside of OEM is always better, when possible, IMO. If the REFLEX can handle it, why shouldn't I use it? I was able to hide more of the REFLEX harness behind and under the headlight, too, so that just makes it all a little nicer. The bit of a bummer was locating the solid state relay that the REFLEX triggers to control the aux' pump. That was a little complicated, but THPSI's notes show you how to hook it all together. I should have waited to wire everything when installing the SSD, but I didn't because I was hoping to make the install a little faster. The result was I had some longer parts of the harness than I needed in a couple places, so it's not as clean as I had hoped for, but it also gave me some flexibility in the future. Funny enough - I used the same routing as Katech shows for their aux' pump controller, and didn't even know it until now. There's a perfect little OEM grommet in the passenger's side wheelwell that the pump ground/power harness and REFLEX signal wire can go through. It's not as good as I would like, but it will do for now, so that will do. It's not as clean as the DSX, I'll grant you, but I put it by the battery, and it's covered by the trunk trim, so you don't see it anyways. It will do for now.

That’s about the last of this aspect. There’s some road tuning for the REFLEX aux’ pump control. It SEEMS to be working as the fuel pressure comes in smoother than before, and the only spikes noted in the log were after in boost, with the pump cranking, and letting off the throttle abruptly. It would spike momentarily, but fall immediately, which seems to make sense. Both DI and PI fuel flow shut-off, and that pressure has to go somewhere, so It seems reasonable to expect to see that, under that circumstance. So - some more of that driving and try to find traction, and a safe place for WOT. All of it seems to be going to plan.

[laynlo15]

If you did that all by yourself that's pretty stellar, big job for two people laying under a car setting on jackstands. Congrats on taking on such a project by yourself. Hope it all works as planned.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

If you did that all by yourself that's pretty stellar, big job for two people laying under a car setting on jackstands. Congrats on taking on such a project by yourself. Hope it all works as planned.

It wasn't too bad. The PITA the second time was a full tank of fuel. It took about three hours to drain it enough to drop, and it was still half full. If it were near empty, like the first time, it would have taken less time, and been easier. Otherwise - it wasn't too bad. Shoot - I've done 2-engines, a few torque converters, a clutch, and a lot of other smaller stuff on this floor, so this wasn't too bad, lol. It would have been easier with help, but not much. I got a good workout out of it though. Probably 200 sit-ups and about the same amount of push-ups, lol.

With this drop-in available now (and I know there are others, but this is the one I needed), I would never have done the DSX-type. There is nothing wrong with it, but tapping the tank, instead of dropping it, just doesn't make sense anymore. This is literally a single day job, on the floor, on jack stands. You literally only need 10, 13, 15, 18mm sockets; 3/8 and 1/2" drives; jacks, ramps/stands; pliers; screw drivers; and a couple other little tools to drop the tank. There IS a retainer clip for the evap. line that comes off the back of the tank that is a beesh. Otherwise - you can put together a fuel filter loop like I did, or buy one of the options out there. Dropping the exhaust, driveshaft, and a couple of heat shields is actually pretty easy (mark the driveshaft orientation to the joints, obviously). There's plenty of slack in the rear diff' cooler lines to drop the tank out of the side, so no worrying about having the add tranny fluid later. Drain the tank AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, and that will make dropping it easiest. And, almost most importantly - make sure you orient the transfer lines in the tank appropriately.

I highly recommend this kind of low side upgrade, having done it, twice, now. A FORE TRIPPLE will get you more fuel, but you won't have the OEM transfer capability. BUT - if you don't need it, and keep fuel high enough, that's not a big deal, so that's not a loss of everyone. I think DSX is coming out with another version of this one soon, too, and I think there's a DW and someone else out there that makes a version, too. Just drop the tank, and do it the right way. No leaks. No sloshing away from the pumps. No fuss.

JMHO.

[toohighpsi]

Nice work - looks great! I agree with Greg on tackling those projects on the jack stands, that's dedication.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Nice work - looks great! I agree with Greg on tackling those projects on the jack stands, that's dedication.

I would like to accept credit, but I think it's more my OCD, lol.

I believe the OEMs get pretty much all of it right, but I also recognize they have to work within a lot of constraints, and that's where the aftermarket can come in and fill those gaps. Products and support you provide the Community ARE AWESOME and just, IMHO, allow this platform to reach it's potential, and more. I'm working within specific constraints, too, and these products have allowed me to get a lot further than I'd ever thought I could, and relatively easily.

If there's one thing left for me for mods', it's the hope of more completely fueling integration between the E92 and REFLEX. If we can get to where we don't have to compensate for the PI-fueling by altering FUELING (which is the way I'm trying it, and the way I've described in this thread), AIRFLOW MODEL, and/or the TORQUE MODEL (which I recognize has worked for a long time successfully), my OCD will be at ease. There are new features in the latest software update which are sweet (and I don't hardly take advantage of because of my combination), but I am completely appreciative of the continued support. The fueling integration would be the last bit of this puzzle, IMHO, that would complete this project, and solidify it as amazing. It's already great, and all of this hardware is awesome, but I'd pay for the complete integration, LOL.

I'm still planning on posting a little more information as to the specifics of the FUELING changes I've made. I keep changing things, and getting distracted, so I, still, have not polished as much as I want to. BUT - I am CLOSE. I'm, mostly, working in the RAIL PRESSURE table, and just adjusting the pressure up-and-down to see what the E92 likes. I might be cheating a little by bringing PE in a little sooner than I'd like (and what most calibrators would say is reasonable), but I'm still playing.

Also - I have redone a little of my aux' pump wiring. So far, the plumbing seems to be holding up as could be expected, but I didn't like a little of my wiring. I have confirmed, for certain, the pump can be triggered (by getting instruction on how to ground the circuit and force it on momentarily), and does move fuel. I thought I was seeing it come on in smaller hits on the street, but traction was not there to stay into the throttle too long, so I wasn't certain the LSFP was actually affected by the aux' pump. It was though, so the tutorial THPSI provides for aux' pump REFLEX control is indeed effective (of course it was ), so eliminating all of the DSX LSFP stuff really cleaned things up. I also figured out that I needed to move the SSR because it was interfering with the trunk trim, creating a bulge. While the trim was damaged from it, I'm not terribly worried about it, and the stress of the trim pushing on the SSR is alleviated, so I feel good about it. There was enough room, behind the rear facia, to move it over, so I just used the outside existing hole, and added a new hole/rivnut, and scooted it over. Not too big a deal. I also found a solid state diode (I guess that's what it's called) that I might eventually install, because my ghetto diode/heater hose barb sheathing REALLY bothers my OCD, but I'm still chewing on it, and need a break, lol.

A little more to follow in a while...