[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Silverado57

Agreed. I like corn in my likker, not in my gas tanks.

How much actual experience do na sayers have with the stuff

[JGiovando]

Just saying when multiple well known tuners in florida immediately explain why they won't do it, it's kind of hard to bet a good feeling and say screw that I'll find someone that will. Not trying to change anyone's beliefs here, simply repeating the information I was given. What would be the benefit to the tuner and shop to poo poo the e85. They both recommend a 93 octane tune over e85. As far as the injectors go they are suggested due to the 20-30% decrease in available energy compared to gasoline which results in a greater volume needed. There is an article in super Chevy discussing applications in vettes and while a Camaro is not a vette, they are similar. Not trying to go tit for tat just wanted to share what I heard is all.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JGiovando

Just saying when multiple well known tuners in florida immediately explain why they won't do it, it's kind of hard to bet a good feeling and say screw that I'll find someone that will. Not trying to change anyone's beliefs here, simply repeating the information I was given. What would be the benefit to the tuner and shop to poo poo the e85. They both recommend a 93 octane tune over e85. As far as the injectors go they are suggested due to the 20-30% decrease in available energy compared to gasoline which results in a greater volume needed. There is an article in super Chevy discussing applications in vettes and while a Camaro is not a vette, they are similar. Not trying to go tit for tat just wanted to share what I heard is all.

Those tuners are living in the past which is why they must not have a clue about these direct injected motors. On LS1/2/3/6/7 motors E85 does not gain much NA because they can reach MBT with 93. Those engines needed bigger fuel injectors and fuel pumps to run it.

These higher compression DI V6 and V8 engines are much different. You can run more timing with E85 and pick up substantial power. On the LT1 the fuel System is capable enough to fuel 600whp NA on E85 without changing anything other then the cam for one with a larger fuel lobe to overdrive the HPFP. I suggest contacting Shops that are up to date in 2018 with the DI stuff... Pray Porting, GPI, Cunningham Motorsports...etc.

[MAGAUSA]

Resurrecting an older thread. Is it confirmed that these engines are plumbed for E85? The issue is corrosion and ethanol will eat through everything that is not made/built to withstand it. And it will take it's time. If there's an issue it won't be immediately apparent. E.g., is the fuel pump in the tank made for ethanol? Are there other places in the fuel system that are not? How can this be confirmed other than through time, experience and personal account? It took my boat years to show the ethanol corrosion problems and they ended up costly. Yes, the engines were built before we intro-ed ethanol into our day to day and much of the system is not pressurized (more so related to water intrusion). So how do we know that all components were manufactured for ethanol?

[JCunningham]

Originally Posted by JGiovando

I'm going to go the other way here and say I'm surprised no one ever discusses the cons to e85. I reached out to several well known and respected tuners in Florida because I read all the rave reviews on here about e85 and was looking to have my car tuned and they won't even tune for e85 due to their belief that it is too likely to harm the engine and fuel system components. Both mentioned the need to go with bigger injectors to compensate for decreased efficiency of e85 and potentially changing the fuel pump and fuel filters, problems with corrosion, and stress on engine internals. Additionally, gas mileage is significantly reduced and then there is the hygroscopic nature of ethanol which could lead to rust and further damage within the engine. Also our cars were not built as flex fuel vehicles. Just jumping in here cause I never see anyone share this side to it. I'd personally love to do it for the added hp and torque with the tune but after talking with these guys and doing some reading I've decided to table it and watch to see how some of these cars hold up after years of running e85.

you dont hear that side because its all misinformed. the materials used in the camaro are ones used in e85 vehicles. the fuel system can handle e85 with headers cai and ported intake manifold. if you added a cam go with a 38 fuel lobe.

[DorkMissile]

Downfalls to E85:

Not as easy to find - I can get it all over in Minnesota, however out in the Dakotas you might go 100miles to find it (use a phone app to plan for fill ups)

Inconsistent E content - Minnesota law says "E85" fuel can have a 51-85% ethanol content. You can get fuel on Monday and it is 75% and come back on Thursday and it is 60%. I stick to the same 2 or 3 stations which seem to be higher than 70% on a regular basis. Check you laws on what the content should be, and use word of mouth on where it is most consistent. Once you are at a E content of 60% you are pretty much at a point where you can't get any more performance from it anyways

Moisture - Ethanol absorbs water. If you live somewhere humid and there is a lot of temperature fluctuation, it is in your best interest to not let the fuel sit too long and to try and keep the tank as full as possible if not driving it for a couple of weeks. If storing over 30 days - you need to run it out and switch to gasoline

Oil Life - E85 can break down oil faster, particularly in lighter viscosities. In my Camaro I change at 3000 miles, but in my Sierra I stretch it until the oil starts turning black. On gas it would go 6000 miles or so, but have yet to break 4500 miles on E85. When storing a car for a long period, it is best to switch to gasoline and drive it some (100miles) and change the oil prior to storage. The ethanol is very aggressive as far as corrosion goes, so this will remove anything that is in the oil before storage.

Converters - Ethanol has been known to be rough on catalytic converters

Nobody should ever consider switching to E85 out of a fuel economy stand point - when calculating vs 91 octane gas your "cost per mile" will be near the same, you just stop more frequently on E85. However the big upside is the performance (108 octane race gas at the pump)

[BlueinTN]

The "my fuel mileage drops" just gives me a chuckle eveytime when it comes to performance cars do people really buy it for gas mileage?


If you dont understand it dont run it I say. If you want gas mileage there are alot of nice hybrid cars out there.

[6spdhyperblue]

Yeah don’t run it not worth the risk

[TJay74]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Yeah don’t run it not worth the risk

Please stop with the misinformation. I have been running E85 for years now with zero issues.

[6spdhyperblue]

Lol /@- this subject has been covered so many times already

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Those tuners are living in the past which is why they must not have a clue about these direct injected motors. These higher compression DI V6 and V8 engines are much different.

I hate to disagree, but a motor is a motor, is a motor. The fuel delivery system is way advanced, but that has zero difference on the static (or really, dynamic) CR. You need higher octane. Whether it is alcohol or gasoline, the motor doesn't care what flavor you serve it, and how you put it in the cylinders doesn't matter (so much) either.

If that were the case, how did these "ancient" tuners have a L-88 factory motor running at a higher 12.5:1 ratio? They did it on 103 octane (minimum)

Or, how about the L68, L71, and L72's all running factory ratios of 11.0:1? E85 wasn't an option in the 60's, but GM cranked them out on the line.

And you can't tell me that none of these motors got hopped up after they left the showroom. Our parents, grandparents, and great grand parents have been doing the same thing ever since the first car was made. So, fuel octane has always been important.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

You can run more timing with E85 and pick up substantial power.

There is no doubt that this is true. But, you can run race gas (or doctor up pump gas) and get similar gains. Where ethanol shines is it's latent heat of evaporation AND it's octane rating. The LH factor is over double what gasoline is. (346 btu/lb vs 150 btu/lb). Meth is even higher (473 btu/lb). That lowers the intake charge temp. The trade off, as I think you have mentioned, is BTU content. Gasoline has a 30% greater heating value, and heat is what pushes the piston down. So, you're trading off lower charge temp vs higher btu content. Which one is truly better, I can't say. Power, convenience, economics, and personal goals of the individual all come into play.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

On the LT1 the fuel System is capable enough to fuel 600whp NA on E85 without changing anything other then the cam for one with a larger fuel lobe to overdrive the HPFP.

What are the numbers for 108 octane gas (the E85 equivalent), or higher (to compensate for the higher charge temp) in the same car? And I'm betting you could still run a stock lobe.

[ScatPack]

The only downside is to not let the car sit for long periods of time with E85 in it. E85 will draw in moisture and corrode parts in the take and in the fuel system over time if you dont keep it flowing. If you daily drive it, then it will be fine. If you are going to park it for winter, then i'd cycle out the E85 in for 93. But other than that and the horrible gas mileage, its fine for the car and will make good power.

[Dixie ZL1]

Seems to me the balance is tune for the highest octane pump fuel available and then run flex at around E50. This minimizes impact where lower octane (91) gasoline is the only option and allows for more aggressive ignition timing.

I would definitely add a flex sensor & tune if I lived in a 91 octane state as you won’t appreciate GM advertised performance without 93 minimum

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Dixie ZL1

Seems to me the balance is tune for the highest octane pump fuel available and then run flex at around E50. This minimizes impact where lower octane (91) gasoline is the only option and allows for more aggressive ignition timing.

I would definitely add a flex sensor & tune if I lived in a 91 octane state as you won’t appreciate GM advertised performance without 93 minimum

Or, run down to Home Depot and buy some Xylene to dump in the tank for more octane. elevation will also have an affect on the octane requirements though. 91 might be just fine on a stock motor. It all comes down to what the knock sensors are hearing.