[ShaunG]

Hi Everyone,

Just looking for some opinions about the SS 1LE as a track tool. What are the common issues, expendable costs, and general thoughts of the SS 1lE as a track day tool. I’m an e46 M3 guy and have been tracking(HPDE) M3’s for some time now and am possibly looking at the SS 1LE instead of M2.

thanks!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by ShaunG

Hi Everyone,

Just looking for some opinions about the SS 1LE as a track tool. What are the common issues, expendable costs, and general thoughts of the SS 1lE as a track day tool. I’m an e46 M3 guy and have been tracking(HPDE) M3’s for some time now and am possibly looking at the SS 1LE instead of M2.

thanks!

M2 doesn't even come close to an SS 1LE. Id say one would need to spring for an M3/4 CS to get similar track performance for 3 times the $ where i live. Ditto GT4.

Zero issues, just tires, pads and fluids. Rotors last forever. A superb, top shelf performer capable of embarrassing exotics in a completely stock form with absolutely zero mods necessary except for alignment and brake fluid (and those are not mods in my book )
The car comes with full track duty warranty 3 yrs bumper to bumper and 5 yrs on drive train.
Easy to push and superbly balanced. Great Recaro seats. Good shifter. Great (and cheap) stock tires (ignore their official tread rating as it is a sandbagging joke!).
Superb Perf Traction Mgmt (PTM) system that ties ediff, suspension, traction and stability control all together and offers a driver varying degrees of assistance incl full Race mode, or all off. Also allows for a number of drive modes like Touring, Sport and Track.
Basically, a C7 Grand Sport Vette with a bit more weight, but 2 extra seats, better balance at half the price.
A NO BRAINER FOR A TRACK CAR. But also fabulous just as a DD. Hope this helps. Cheers!

[ShaunG]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

M2 doesn't even come close to an SS 1LE. Id say one would need to spring for an M3/4 CS to get similar track performance for 3 times the $ where i live. Ditto GT4.

Zero issues, just tires, pads and fluids. Rotors last forever. A superb, top shelf performer capable of embarrassing exotics in a completely stock form with absolutely zero mods necessary except for alignment and brake fluid (and those are not mods in my book )
The car comes with full track duty warranty 3 yrs bumper to bumper and 5 yrs on drive train.
Easy to push and superbly balanced. Great Recaro seats. Good shifter. Great (and cheap) stock tires (ignore their official tread rating as it is a sandbagging joke!).
Superb Perf Traction Mgmt (PTM) system that ties ediff, suspension, traction and stability control all together and offers a driver varying degrees of assistance incl full Race mode, or all off. Also allows for a number of drive modes like Touring, Sport and Track.
Basically, a C7 Grand Sport Vette with a bit more weight, but 2 extra seats, better balance at half the price.
A NO BRAINER FOR A TRACK CAR. But also fabulous just as a DD. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Thanks for responding,

How much front and rear camber is recommended and can that be dialed in with the stock camber plates or are the "road course" people going to aftermarket camber plates? What the consensus on stability control? On or off or the SC is so good you won't be faster with off. Thanks

[HawkeyeMike]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

M2 doesn't even come close to an SS 1LE. Id say one would need to spring for an M3/4 CS to get similar track performance for 3 times the $ where i live. Ditto GT4.

Zero issues, just tires, pads and fluids. Rotors last forever. A superb, top shelf performer capable of embarrassing exotics in a completely stock form with absolutely zero mods necessary except for alignment and brake fluid (and those are not mods in my book )
The car comes with full track duty warranty 3 yrs bumper to bumper and 5 yrs on drive train.
Easy to push and superbly balanced. Great Recaro seats. Good shifter. Great (and cheap) stock tires (ignore their official tread rating as it is a sandbagging joke!).
Superb Perf Traction Mgmt (PTM) system that ties ediff, suspension, traction and stability control all together and offers a driver varying degrees of assistance incl full Race mode, or all off. Also allows for a number of drive modes like Touring, Sport and Track.
Basically, a C7 Grand Sport Vette with a bit more weight, but 2 extra seats, better balance at half the price.
A NO BRAINER FOR A TRACK CAR. But also fabulous just as a DD. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Fully agree with all the comments about the SS 1LE. It really is just that good.

But...fully disagree with the comment that the M2 doesn't come close. My brother has a 2019 M2 Competition - it is every bit the track stud that my car is. Look around at comparison tests, AutoX results, etc. Those two cars are about equal. The question is - which style do you like better? Which 'attitude' do you like better? And, if the M2 Comp, do you want to spend $15k over the 1LE? But for pure performance, they are truly near equals.

One more thing to consider is your skill level. My brother and I (and others who have driven both cars) would probably say this: the M2 is easier to drive fast (so a beginner or lower-skilled driver would excel in the M2 over the 1LE), but the 1LE has a higher ceiling for ultimate lap times (a higher skilled driver would likely eventually get faster times with the 1LE). Ultimately the M2 is easier to control wheelspin during drive off corners. But...once you control the Camaro it will reward you with better times.

Mike

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by ShaunG

Thanks for responding,

How much front and rear camber is recommended and can that be dialed in with the stock camber plates or are the "road course" people going to aftermarket camber plates? What the consensus on stability control? On or off or the SC is so good you won't be faster with off. Thanks

2.6F and 1.6R (or thereabouts) on stock bolts gives a nice balance and equal wear across, for regular R comp type rubber (non slicks). Daily driving doesnt affect the wear all that much at those settings, so i keep mine fixed. At these settings the tires will eventually cord the insides anyway (if you keep them on long enough). Fyi Those settings exceed GM track recommended 2.0F and 1.5R.

As i said PTM system offers several steps re nannies. Read the sticky above titled PTM System Demystifed. First post on first page, incl GM engineer's comments.

On a street i drive the car in defaul setting (suspension im Tour, all nannies on).
On track i like PTM Race, which disables stability control but retains race calibrated traction control for exits.
Others track with all off. But many (most?) prefer Race.
PTM Sport 1, which is the most aggressive calibration that retains stability control and traction control is very good and can be very fast in right hands, especially if a driver is smooth. I prefer Race as the car is more free and rotates more willingly. But, all are great choices and have their merit. Read the sticky pls. Not many cars come with this level of calibration choices!
Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeMike

Fully agree with all the comments about the SS 1LE. It really is just that good.

But...fully disagree with the comment that the M2 doesn't come close. My brother has a 2019 M2 Competition - it is every bit the track stud that my car is. Look around at comparison tests, AutoX results, etc. Those two cars are about equal. The question is - which style do you like better? Which 'attitude' do you like better? And, if the M2 Comp, do you want to spend $15k over the 1LE? But for pure performance, they are truly near equals.

One more thing to consider is your skill level. My brother and I (and others who have driven both cars) would probably say this: the M2 is easier to drive fast (so a beginner or lower-skilled driver would excel in the M2 over the 1LE), but the 1LE has a higher ceiling for ultimate lap times (a higher skilled driver would likely eventually get faster times with the 1LE). Ultimately the M2 is easier to control wheelspin during drive off corners. But...once you control the Camaro it will reward you with better times.

Mike

I didnt say M2 wasn't a good car

But based on my experience, it is slower. Same instructor/solo run groups at various venues.

Then again, i often run against a *very well* sorted 1M driven by a friend and he gives me a belly ache sometimes
Then again (again) i pass most ZL1s and ZLEs. So it all depends

Bottom line, there is no car on the market at this price (incl discounts) that even remotely comes close to an SS 1LE. And there are plently of cars that cost double+ that just equal it.

Agree with your statement that the Camaro has a very high performance ceiling. But it is superbly balanced and easy to drive imo. And it communicates limits superbly.
Drive a Vette and you'll know what i mean

[HawkeyeMike]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I didnt say M2 wasn't a good car

But based on my experience, it is slower. Same instructor/solo run groups at various venues.

Then again, i often run against a *very well* sorted 1M driven by a friend and he gives me a belly ache sometimes
Then again (again) i pass most ZL1s and ZLEs. So it all depends

Bottom line, there is no car on the market at this price (incl discounts) that even remotely comes close to an SS 1LE. And there are plently of cars that cost double+ that just equal it.

Agree with your statement that the Camaro has a very high performance ceiling. But it is superbly balanced and easy to drive imo. And it communicates limits superbly.
Drive a Vette and you'll know what i mean

Sure. Mostly I agree with you. We just differ on how close we think the M2 Comp is to SS 1LE. Maybe I just have a lower skill level than you, maybe also my thoughts are skewed more towards AutoX than track, since I do more AutoX than I do track days. I just know that looking at the two cars through my lens, I have won AutoX events in my brother's car, and also in my old 2017 SS...but I haven't been able to win PAX in my own 1LE yet.

Mike

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeMike

Sure. Mostly I agree with you. We just differ on how close we think the M2 Comp is to SS 1LE. Maybe I just have a lower skill level than you, maybe also my thoughts are skewed more towards AutoX than track, since I do more AutoX than I do track days. I just know that looking at the two cars through my lens, I have won AutoX events in my brother's car, and also in my old 2017 SS...but I haven't been able to win PAX in my own 1LE yet.

Mike

Valid points and to be fair i dont autox at all, so clearly happy to respect your feedback and opinion here.
Cheers!

[HawkeyeMike]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Bottom line, there is no car on the market at this price (incl discounts) that even remotely comes close to an SS 1LE. And there are plently of cars that cost double+ that just equal it.

Agreed 100% here. If someone had three criteria: 1 - buy new, 2 - best track car, 3 - $50k limit...there is nothing even close to the SS 1LE.

I was wondering if the Supra would challenge, but so far doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe the upcoming Nissan 400Z?

Quick question - I see in your signature you had a '17 1LE, and now have a newer one. What are differences in your opinion? Is it much of a difference? Why did you buy a newer one?

Mike

[apexit53]

I spent all season in my 1le chasing an M2 to the point i started looking into one. Granted its autocross but some of my take away cam be valid for track use.

My issue with the M2 over the Camaro(and gt350 for that matter) they aren't 15-20g more of a car. The value per performance is amazing with the 1LE. Also for me who hasn't had any tickets in 15 years the insurance for the m2 was almost 300 more every 6 months.

The camaro is harder to drive fast but this season when i was able to get things right, its unbelievably rewarding to do so. You feel as though you have tamed some sort of beast. lol

[UnknownJinX]

For the AutoX people, naturally, AutoX favours smaller cars and so I can see an edge going to M2 there. Not that you can't win in a Camaro, it just takes more work.

Also, M2 and M2C are noticeably different from what I have been informed. Mixing them up would probably be akin to mixing up SS and SS 1LE.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeMike

Agreed 100% here. If someone had three criteria: 1 - buy new, 2 - best track car, 3 - $50k limit...there is nothing even close to the SS 1LE.

I was wondering if the Supra would challenge, but so far doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe the upcoming Nissan 400Z?

Quick question - I see in your signature you had a '17 1LE, and now have a newer one. What are differences in your opinion? Is it much of a difference? Why did you buy a newer one?

Mike

When i sold my long term C5Z track car, i wanted to go back full circle and have a track capable car i could also enjoy as an occasional DD. So that's how i ended up with the 17.

At the same time, i did some math and decided that trading every 3 yrs (given incentives on new) gave me best trade in value and hence overall cost of ownership.
I had ordered my 2020, then cancelled it due to Covid, but the car arrived at the dealer and so did new incentives. So i pulled the trigger again! Needless to say, i didnt pay anything close to $50k USD. Not even $40k.
So it was another no brainer.

I do prefer the refreshed styling of the 2020. I also love the new color, while my white 17 was a huge PITA keeping it clean after track use. As far as performance, it is the same car, BUT i do think the 19/20 revised front splitter and hood extractor provide for more front end grip. The car FEELS the same, but it turns in a bit better and is more responive to off throttle steering in fast mid corners. At least that's what i think is mainly responsible for 2 new PBs at 2 tracks i ran at this season (it was a very skinny season - just 5 days!). Albeit i did alter my trail braking a bit.

What will happen in 23, who knows? If GM upgrades the Camaro, i may go for it. If not, i may keep it longer, or maybe snatch the last year of gen6.
Unlike with LS2/3/7, there hasn't been any motor issues with LT1/4, so longevity should be good including other major components. Of course, when one beats on a car long enough something will eventually go. Perhaps a clutch? But that's par for the course imo.

PS Disappointed with the Supra. Seems not the easiest car to drive either. I doubt Nissan will deliver the goods, but it would be nice if they did. Not much else to pick from except for the usual suspects: Bimmers, Pcars and Stangs. Albeit Ford got into a strategy of charging ridiculous money for their true performance models by way of a special logo. Pity! I used to own 3 of them back in a day.

Cheers!

[ShaunG]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

For the AutoX people, naturally, AutoX favours smaller cars and so I can see an edge going to M2 there. Not that you can't win in a Camaro, it just takes more work.

Also, M2 and M2C are noticeably different from what I have been informed. Mixing them up would probably be akin to mixing up SS and SS 1LE.

Very true. I'm also looking at a 981 Boxster s. All of these cars are "around" the same price used. I had a base 981 Boxster, a great car but underpowered. They all offer a very different driving experiences.

[Zl1+911]

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

5 sec difference between the M2C and SS1LE on VIR