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Old 08-27-2020, 12:41 PM   #29
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The factory temp sensor built into the MAF is very sensitive and fast reacting and those thread in GM sensors are notoriously slow. That GM thread-in is the world standard for standalone ECU users, so lots of people have very unrealistic IAT expectation. Real world testing with tiny little .010" bead thermocouples is a real eye opener. You stick these in a PD blower and you see how fast those little 1" thick intercooler bricks drop to 20% efficiency. It's only a few seconds. But those big thread in sensor will tell you just what you want to see

https://www.grainger.com/product/UEI..._vc=IDPPLARECS
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Old 08-27-2020, 12:42 PM   #30
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200f at 1000+whp of airflow is as good as it get's without ice or other such cooling games.
Compressor outlet temps would be 350-400f at 23psi
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Old 08-27-2020, 12:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by AGP Turbo View Post
The factory temp sensor built into the MAF is very sensitive and fast reacting and those thread in GM sensors are notoriously slow. That GM thread-in is the world standard for standalone ECU users, so lots of people have very unrealistic IAT expectation. Real world testing with tiny little .010" bead thermocouples is a real eye opener. You stick these in a PD blower and you see how fast those little 1" thick intercooler bricks drop to 20% efficiency. It's only a few seconds. But those big thread in sensor will tell you just what you want to see

https://www.grainger.com/product/UEI..._vc=IDPPLARECS
World standard ?

Maybe US standard, I've rarely seen people in the UK use them. They're big and bulky compared to offerings commonly used here with M10 to M14 threads.

Mine is an ancient Marelli ATS04.

The Motec vid. The Bosch one he is using is the one I was referring to that is utter rubbish. Fine for ambient...not in any way at all useful for boost.
So while his good KA sensor is good...he's also comparing it to some bad sensors.

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Old 08-27-2020, 12:50 PM   #32
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World standard ?

Maybe US standard, I've never seen people in the UK use them. They're big and bulky compared to offerings commonly used here with M10 to M14 threads.
UK race cars are a drop in the bucket. Any one city in Texas has more standalones being used than all of the UK.
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Old 08-27-2020, 12:54 PM   #33
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What a horrid test. Are we testing how long it takes his heat gun to heat up. Try science.
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Old 08-27-2020, 12:59 PM   #34
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UK race cars are a drop in the bucket. Any one city in Texas has more standalones being used than all of the UK.

Texas isnt the world....and I really doubt that last comment.

There are more standalone ecu makers in the UK alone...than in Texas.

And how fast a heat gun heats up is irrelevant when all the sensors are in the same tube, reading at the same time......which is a valid test.


And if you think 200degF charge temps are fine after cooling ???

You cannot be serious ? 200degF is utterly dreadful. Hell if mine are more than 30degC or so more than ambient even at 30psi, I consider that bad.
I've run cars at 45psi and never seen temps as terrible as that
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:07 PM   #35
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EDIT- I'm not going to waste my time explaining how that test should have been run.

You are using what sensor at what HP?
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:08 PM   #36
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Seems insanely hot 200degF ? Is this with no intercooler ? Or is it extremely hot ambients ?

Also, why so many differing boost readings ? You've one at 225kpa, 20psi and 32psi ?
With AGP drag size intercooler. Ambient was 95*F. My intake air filters are very far from an ideal location being just below the headers and not much to deflect the hot air elsewhere (hence why not just add the WI if I'm going to dial up boost).

The street run started out with a IAT of 106*F sitting still, then accelerating through the gears to 3rd, IAT was 118*F, so at the end of 3rd gear run IAT was 201*F (an 83*F rise) without WI. With WI it would have been, maybe, 25-30*F rise.

I like the MAP(kPa) to compared directly to my HPTune VE table, I like the Boost(psi) to see how much the turbos are pumping, and the MAP(psi) used to be to see what Baro was or total - now that you bring it up, I'll remove that use that spot for something more useful.
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:12 PM   #37
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Maybe you don't understand the difference between F and C? A 30c rise is 86f. That's right about what he's getting.
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:15 PM   #38
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What relevance has HP to air temp ?

I've stated one sensor I use, a typical open bulb thermistor. As for brands....they vary, I do not keep records.
And many are supplied unbranded anyway as they're just OEM replacements anyway available in thread sizes that suit each application at the time, much as those using Delphi types.
Supplied by one of those many ecu manufacturers in the UK.

And really, there is no debate.

Do you seriously think 200degF charge temps at fairly low boost, after charge cooling has taken place are good ?

You must know better than that. And you must know post compressor temps will vary depending on compressor, there is no generic temp.

Is this test to show how some thermocouples compare any better for you ? with a slow ( fast ) air temp sensor thrown in too.

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Old 08-27-2020, 01:18 PM   #39
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LOL

Well if you are running 30psi into a 1L engine heating the air to 400f. You are only generating 1/10 the BTU of heat as a 10L engine at 30psi heating the air to 400f.
Then the frontal area of the cars are the same. So intercooler size is the same and the airflow to it is the same but the car with the 10L engine has to cool 10x as may BTUs as the 1L car. So I think you might just have a little warmer air coming out.
Do you really not get this utterly basic critical concept?
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:20 PM   #40
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Maybe you don't understand the difference between F and C? A 30c rise is 86f. That's right about what he's getting.
If we use 20degC to 50degC as a 30degC Rise.

That's 68degF to 122 degF. That's a 54degF rise.

Where are you getting 86 from ?

Even your extreme of say 100degF to 200degF...

Is 37.8degC to 93degC.....That's a 55degC rise.

So how are you correlating a 30degC rise to 86deg F rise ?

Do you not understand basic maths ?
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:25 PM   #41
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Oh right. I did my F-C conversion wrong. He had a 46.7c increase
Still please address all your huge flaws in thought.
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:28 PM   #42
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I think I've seen enough flaws...

200degF charge temps after cooling is shit.

No sane person can dispute that.
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