[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by drfeelgood

Depends on the design of the driver. If you guys follow my threads, you know I swear by Hybrid Audio Technology Drivers.

If you all want to replace the OEM speakers with a direct fit replacement , then HAT 2.7" U2 speakers are definitely the way to go.

Thanks for the info. The frequency range of those speakers looks awesome, unfortunately they are 4 ohm and have a sensitivity of only 87 db. Regardless of how great they probably sound, I don't think they would be loud enough as a drop in replacement to match the rest of the Bose system. I would be willing to spend 460 bucks as a simple fix to the high end of the Bose, but it is a little steep to take a chance just to find out they don't sound right with the rest of the system.

Any other options other than adding a signal processor after the Bose amp, new amplifiers and new speakers? Maybe a passive crossover and small tweeter added to the corner Bose speakers?

[drfeelgood]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

Thanks for the info. The frequency range of those speakers looks awesome, unfortunately they are 4 ohm and have a sensitivity of only 87 db. Regardless of how great they probably sound, I don't think they would be loud enough as a drop in replacement to match the rest of the Bose system. I would be willing to spend 460 bucks as a simple fix to the high end of the Bose, but it is a little steep to take a chance just to find out they don't sound right with the rest of the system.

Any other options other than adding a signal processor after the Bose amp, new amplifiers and new speakers? Maybe a passive crossover and small tweeter added to the corner Bose speakers?

They design these to be direct fit replacements for OEM setups, but yes, the limiting factor here being the BOSE amplifier, and I cant say how that would sound with these drivers. The drivers are definitely improvements over BOSE quality wise.

You could always add a passive crossover to eliminate those frequencies. jax_Chris may chime in with a suggestion also

[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by drfeelgood

You could always add a passive crossover to eliminate those frequencies. jax_Chris may chime in with a suggestion also

I was thinking more in the line of keeping the Bose driver, adding a high efficiency tweeter (don't yet know where it would fit) and splitting the signal between the two with the crossover.

[JaxChris]

It's rare for someone wanting to add more tweeter to a factory premium system. I'm always very sensitive to stacking too much tweeter in a system -- especially hard metal domes. If you want more tweeter, much sure they are soft domes. Titanium tweeters make me feel like someone is drilling my skull.

Are you just wanting a drop-in speaker adjustment to the Bose system, without new amps or extra processors? Matching up the low impedance of the Bose speakers is going to be tough to keep the same juice to the cones. If you care more about SPL, then 90+ SPL speakers at 4ohms should run on the Bose amp just fine (as long as you replace them all with the same resistance, I don't know how many posts are in the amp or how the channels are paired to them).

You'll lose half the wattage going to 4ohm, but a very sensitive speaker should give you all the nuances you're asking for. If you want to recover some bass, I would suggest throwing some 1-channel mini class-D's in the door panels and driving them off of the window motors so you don't have to modify the doors bulkhead connector. If it is 10amp, you can run them with the windows, if they are 15amp, then mute/turn down your radio before operating your windows.

Alpine, Clarion and Kicker each make palm size 1 & 4 channel class-D's that run at 4/2ohms. The Alpine isn't sealed for outdoor use, so using that in the door panel might be a risk. You'll also want to take measurements and scout your possible install locations before deciding on which amp. Space and location could dictate which amp you use.

[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

It's rare for someone wanting to add more tweeter to a factory premium system. I'm always very sensitive to stacking too much tweeter in a system -- especially hard metal domes. If you want more tweeter, much sure they are soft domes. Titanium tweeters make me feel like someone is drilling my skull.

Are you just wanting a drop-in speaker adjustment to the Bose system, without new amps or extra processors? Matching up the low impedance of the Bose speakers is going to be tough to keep the same juice to the cones. If you care more about SPL, then 90+ SPL speakers at 4ohms should run on the Bose amp just fine (as long as you replace them all with the same resistance, I don't know how many posts are in the amp or how the channels are paired to them).

You'll lose half the wattage going to 4ohm, but a very sensitive speaker should give you all the nuances you're asking for. If you want to recover some bass, I would suggest throwing some 1-channel mini class-D's in the door panels and driving them off of the window motors so you don't have to modify the doors bulkhead connector. If it is 10amp, you can run them with the windows, if they are 15amp, then mute/turn down your radio before operating your windows.

Alpine, Clarion and Kicker each make palm size 1 & 4 channel class-D's that run at 4/2ohms. The Alpine isn't sealed for outdoor use, so using that in the door panel might be a risk. You'll also want to take measurements and scout your possible install locations before deciding on which amp. Space and location could dictate which amp you use.

A drop in replacement would be great. The problem is finding one that's small enough to fit in the available space, has a frequency range of 200 to 20k Hz, is 2 to 4 ohms, and is efficient enough that it will match, (or be louder) than the rest of the system. Louder drivers can always be attenuated down.
To my untrained ears it just sounds like the system trails off at the high end and needs some help above 10k Hz or so. The other issue is: how much is the amplified signal to those speakers modified from flat to make up for inaccuracies in those small Bose drivers? Would flat-response drop-in speakers sound worse? That's why I thought keeping the Bose, splitting the signal through a (8k Hz?) passive crossover, and adding separate tweeters might add some sparkle to the high end without messing up the rest of the response. Thoughts?

[drfeelgood]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

A drop in replacement would be great. The problem is finding one that's small enough to fit in the available space, has a frequency range of 200 to 20k Hz, is 2 to 4 ohms, and is efficient enough that it will match, (or be louder) than the rest of the system. Louder drivers can always be attenuated down.
To my untrained ears it just sounds like the system trails off at the high end and needs some help above 10k Hz or so. The other issue is: how much is the amplified signal to those speakers modified from flat to make up for inaccuracies in those small Bose drivers? Would flat-response drop-in speakers sound worse? That's why I thought keeping the Bose, splitting the signal through a (8k Hz?) passive crossover, and adding separate tweeters might add some sparkle to the high end without messing up the rest of the response. Thoughts?

Sounds like you want to make a quasi-3 way setup. As Jax said, if you do this, would suggest you consider silk dome tweeters. On or off axis really depends on the tweeters as some are designed to Sound best on axis, others are great either on or off axis.

[JaxChris]

The Bose drivers actually aren't terrible. If you just want speakers, test out the Bose first. Get yourself a pink noise tuning app on your phone, sit in the car, play the track and then tweak the factory 3 bar EQ to pull down the treble and bass until midrange shines. Then bring the bass up until you're happy that it too isn't muddying the middle. After that, you just use volume control.

The Bose amp is designed to output at 2ohm. If you throw 3.5 or 4ohm speakers into the system, you're going to cut power and possibly cut down the output to half which means the amp runs hotter to displace the energy it isn't sending down the outputs. Pretty sure the front of the car is on one pole in the amp and all of the rear is on another pole. If you put a single 4ohm speaker in the front of the car, you'll cut power by half for all of them.

The PAC or Axxess integration modules plus a few cheap mini class-D's will provide the same power level you're used to at a 4ohm load and let you use whatever size speakers you can find. When not matching up subs, I would much rather start with a 4ohm standard system. It's like trying to mess with a 3-way component and keep the load at 4ohm across the range. If your driver is going to overlap with your woofer or tweeter, then you need to lower the resistance of the driver to make it the path out of the passive crossover that gets the midrange signals. A 3.5ohm driver will pull the power of a frequency before a 4ohm driver will on the same collective circuit.

Electricity is funny like that. If any things are not equal, then everything gets very complicated. That's why even budget builders eventually look at going full 3-way active on their front stages so they can run each speaker on its' own without juggling anything.

With modern car audio factory "premium" system replacements, I wish there were just decent priced 2/3/4 channel amps with 2/4 input modes, great bandpass capabilities and a small footprint. Stick them behind a half-assed integration module with beginner friendly DSP functions and most people that post in here would have what they want without costing a crap load of cash.

[drfeelgood]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

The Bose drivers actually aren't terrible. If you just want speakers, test out the Bose first. Get yourself a pink noise tuning app on your phone, sit in the car, play the track and then tweak the factory 3 bar EQ to pull down the treble and bass until midrange shines. Then bring the bass up until you're happy that it too isn't muddying the middle. After that, you just use volume control.

The Bose amp is designed to output at 2ohm. If you throw 3.5 or 4ohm speakers into the system, you're going to cut power and possibly cut down the output to half which means the amp runs hotter to displace the energy it isn't sending down the outputs. Pretty sure the front of the car is on one pole in the amp and all of the rear is on another pole. If you put a single 4ohm speaker in the front of the car, you'll cut power by half for all of them.

The PAC or Axxess integration modules plus a few cheap mini class-D's will provide the same power level you're used to at a 4ohm load and let you use whatever size speakers you can find. When not matching up subs, I would much rather start with a 4ohm standard system. It's like trying to mess with a 3-way component and keep the load at 4ohm across the range. If your driver is going to overlap with your woofer or tweeter, then you need to lower the resistance of the driver to make it the path out of the passive crossover that gets the midrange signals. A 3.5ohm driver will pull the power of a frequency before a 4ohm driver will on the same collective circuit.

Electricity is funny like that. If any things are not equal, then everything gets very complicated. That's why even budget builders eventually look at going full 3-way active on their front stages so they can run each speaker on its' own without juggling anything.

With modern car audio factory "premium" system replacements, I wish there were just decent priced 2/3/4 channel amps with 2/4 input modes, great bandpass capabilities and a small footprint. Stick them behind a half-assed integration module with beginner friendly DSP functions and most people that post in here would have what they want without costing a crap load of cash.

Agree... but not really a good option like that out there. And I'm not sure how long you've owned your car, but most installers were having a hell uv a time installing a decent aftermarket setup prior to the first MOST interface ( the NAVTV piece). At least there are more options out there now, but to be honest, most people don't understand electronics like you, even a lot of installers don't, so a lot of the nuances and the importance of setting the system up the right way will be lost on them.

[JaxChris]

I looked all around today and couldn't find a good option for the dash corner speakers for a budget upgrade.

Drfeelsgood spent a lot on those HAT 2.7" drivers and I'm sure they are great, but that is more than even I would want to spend. (your post was the first I heard of them and I had sticker shock when I saw the prices on them haha)

OP: The problem with getting any ~2.5" speaker to fit there (and why everyone is just dropping tweeters from 2-way components up there) is that the mounting depth is only 1.3" and the top clearance is only 0.2", making it a VERY tight fit. If you look at the factory Bose speaker, it uses a wide and thin magnet where most drivers under 3" would typically use a neo magnet which needs more depth than the pancake Bose put on that speaker. I believe that speaker is a one-off just to fit what Bose recommended into the space that Chevy left behind. If Chevy had provisioned the center channel pocket for two 3" drivers, the corners could've held the tweeters and some faux-center imaging could've been done without doing such a weird speaker in a tight location.

[302Blue]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

I looked all around today and couldn't find a good option for the dash corner speakers for a budget upgrade.

Drfeelsgood spent a lot on those HAT 2.7" drivers and I'm sure they are great, but that is more than even I would want to spend. (your post was the first I heard of them and I had sticker shock when I saw the prices on them haha)

OP: The problem with getting any ~2.5" speaker to fit there (and why everyone is just dropping tweeters from 2-way components up there) is that the mounting depth is only 1.3" and the top clearance is only 0.2", making it a VERY tight fit. If you look at the factory Bose speaker, it uses a wide and thin magnet where most drivers under 3" would typically use a neo magnet which needs more depth than the pancake Bose put on that speaker. I believe that speaker is a one-off just to fit what Bose recommended into the space that Chevy left behind. If Chevy had provisioned the center channel pocket for two 3" drivers, the corners could've held the tweeters and some faux-center imaging could've been done without doing such a weird speaker in a tight location.

So you think unless you buy some speciality/custom (which doesn't really work in a "budget" setup), it's better to go component or just leave the tweeters alone?

[302Blue]

Originally Posted by drfeelgood

The OP's idea will not sound good, and neither will yours.
The speakers in the dash are full range 2.5" drivers. Likely playing signals from 200Hz on up. Tweeters are NOT designed to be played anywhere near that low. If you send the signal from the BOSE amp playing frequencies that low to a tweeter, you will get horrible distortion quickly followed by a blown tweeter.

Drfeelgood, can you take a sec and explain why replacing the stock speakers with the Infinity Kappas @ 2.5Ohm & 93db sensitivity wouldn't sound good? Maybe I'm stupid, but since they're low impedance and decent sensitivity I don't see how they could sound so much worse. Aren't they pretty close to the stock speakers in speaker design?

Let's assume for the moment I just don't touch the tweeters because problems laid out by JaxChris. Just in reference to the door/rear monitor units.

[drfeelgood]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

I looked all around today and couldn't find a good option for the dash corner speakers for a budget upgrade.

Drfeelsgood spent a lot on those HAT 2.7" drivers and I'm sure they are great, but that is more than even I would want to spend. (your post was the first I heard of them and I had sticker shock when I saw the prices on them haha)

OP: The problem with getting any ~2.5" speaker to fit there (and why everyone is just dropping tweeters from 2-way components up there) is that the mounting depth is only 1.3" and the top clearance is only 0.2", making it a VERY tight fit. If you look at the factory Bose speaker, it uses a wide and thin magnet where most drivers under 3" would typically use a neo magnet which needs more depth than the pancake Bose put on that speaker. I believe that speaker is a one-off just to fit what Bose recommended into the space that Chevy left behind. If Chevy had provisioned the center channel pocket for two 3" drivers, the corners could've held the tweeters and some faux-center imaging could've been done without doing such a weird speaker in a tight location.

(Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler ) and Chevy vehicles all have this new weird 2.5 driver in the dash, as opposed to the more traditional 3.5” midrange that went in those areas in the past. HAT created two drivers that could be used to drop into the locations , the U2 driver and the L2SE. The Unity line is their mid grade driver, while the L2SE is competition grade. I agree with you, neither of these are “budget friendly” options, and Scott Buwulda has yet to (and may never) create drivers in the more budget friendly Unity or Imagine lines at this size.

[drfeelgood]

Originally Posted by 302Blue

Drfeelgood, can you take a sec and explain why replacing the stock speakers with the Infinity Kappas @ 2.5Ohm & 93db sensitivity wouldn't sound good? Maybe I'm stupid, but since they're low impedance and decent sensitivity I don't see how they could sound so much worse. Aren't they pretty close to the stock speakers in speaker design?

Let's assume for the moment I just don't touch the tweeters because problems laid out by Jack. Just in reference to the door/rear monitor units.

I’m sorry if I was confusing, the Kappa 6.5” or 6x9” drivers would be fine for drop in replacement for the sides or rear. I was speaking more to the tweeters. If you drop traditional tweeters in the factory location and run the Bose Amp signal directly to them, with no additional active or passive crossover, those tweeters will distort and then you’ll see smoke because they will fry with a 200hz signal

[302Blue]

Originally Posted by drfeelgood

I’m sorry if I was confusing, the Kappa 6.5” or 6x9” drivers would be fine for drop in replacement for the sides or rear. I was speaking more to the tweeters. If you drop traditional tweeters in the factory location and run the Bose Amp signal directly to them, with no additional active or passive crossover, those tweeters will distort and then you’ll see smoke because they will fry with a 200hz signal

Oh okay, so just need to figure out a different solution for the tweeters then. Thanks for the clarification.