[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

'13 MY was a refresh. The industry term "sheetmetal" can be any body panel, no mater what it is made of...

Yeah so you had the refresh in 10, refresh in 13 new gen in 15 and another refresh in 18.

2 refreshes in the last 7 model years with a new generation in there as well and a upcoming refresh for the 2018 model. So 3 refreshes and a new gen in a span of 8 model years

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah so you had the refresh in 10, refresh in 13 new gen in 15 and another refresh in 18.

2 refreshes in the last 7 model years with a new generation in there as well and a upcoming refresh for the 2018 model. So 3 refreshes and a new gen in a span of 8 model years

'18 is going to be a new lower front bumper shape, and new light designs that look to even be in the same housings, that's it. That is pretty basic stuff. '13 had all new front and rear bumpers, new hood, new rockers, totally different lights. '18 in my eyes will barely be a refresh...they probably just want to try to loose some of the Fusion coupe stigma...

[IOMike]

Needs some hardware upgrades.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I will add that as a enthusiast, I appreciate the Camaro teams focus on maximum performance. Build the best car with the right balance of chassis dynamics and straight line speed.

I am too. Whatever happens I know this is the best car I've ever driven.

[Zack46]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

I am too. Whatever happens I know this is the best car I've ever driven.

I couldn't agree with you more.

BEST car I have ever owned. Period.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Zack46

I couldn't agree with you more.

BEST car I have ever owned. Period.

Yep, ditto.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

'18 is going to be a new lower front bumper shape, and new light designs that look to even be in the same housings, that's it. That is pretty basic stuff. '13 had all new front and rear bumpers, new hood, new rockers, totally different lights. '18 in my eyes will barely be a refresh...they probably just want to try to loose some of the Fusion coupe stigma...

I hope they change the hood too. It's not a bad design as is, but not a big fan of the ridges it has (similar to 96-98 Cobras).

[IOMike]

GM played the same game with the trucks. When the 14s came out they were incredibly stingy with discounts and as soon as they put cash on the hood (not as much as a Ram albeit) they started to sell better. Camaro is no different. Mustang has had huge discounts and offers since day 1, Camaro is just starting to offer them


Price sells. The cheap price and high volume of the Mustang proves that.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by IOMike

GM played the same game with the trucks. When the 14s came out they were incredibly stingy with discounts and as soon as they put cash on the hood (not as much as a Ram albeit) they started to sell better. Camaro is no different. Mustang has had huge discounts and offers since day 1, Camaro is just starting to offer them


Price sells. The cheap price and high volume of the Mustang proves that.

There is a balance that simply has to be struck, you can discount a vehicle however if that is resulting in a loss then it is self defeating. After all just think of how many cars they would sell at $1,000, it would drive them out of business doing that though.

As far as the non V8 versions of these cars I think it is funny because between the Mustang and Camaro they likely had similar average transaction prices. The V-6 Mustang is really the only place where the Mustang is cheaper (non V-8 MSRP pricing) then the Camaro. Though the physiological impact of having that V-6 Mustang at a price a few grand cheaper then the Camaro will push someone into a $40,000 ecoboost Mustang.

The other thing that I see driving up Camaro prices are dealer installed options (the dealers around me went crazy with them )

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by doc7000

As far as the non V8 versions of these cars I think it is funny because between the Mustang and Camaro they likely had similar average transaction prices. The V-6 Mustang is really the only place where the Mustang is cheaper (non V-8 MSRP pricing) then the Camaro. Though the physiological impact of having that V-6 Mustang at a price a few grand cheaper then the Camaro will push someone into a $40,000 ecoboost Mustang.

When I was shopping for a vehicle (April/May 2016) this was not the case. A base Ecoboost could be purchased (including Tax/Tags/Title) for $24k. The V6 Mustang was roughly 2-3k cheaper. The v6 Camaro was $28k+. Obviously the prices are closer with all of GM's incentives, but those extend to old stock at this point.

[ForgedReality]

Nobody likes the 6th gen. Sales have been down ever since the gen 5.5 because they decided to make the Camaro into an Integra or whatever the ****. Hopefully, it's just because everyone is waiting for the ZL1. :P

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by doc7000

There is a balance that simply has to be struck, you can discount a vehicle however if that is resulting in a loss then it is self defeating. After all just think of how many cars they would sell at $1,000, it would drive them out of business doing that though.

As far as the non V8 versions of these cars I think it is funny because between the Mustang and Camaro they likely had similar average transaction prices. The V-6 Mustang is really the only place where the Mustang is cheaper (non V-8 MSRP pricing) then the Camaro. Though the physiological impact of having that V-6 Mustang at a price a few grand cheaper then the Camaro will push someone into a $40,000 ecoboost Mustang.

The other thing that I see driving up Camaro prices are dealer installed options (the dealers around me went crazy with them )

I think they realize there is a group of people who have to have it and will buy it no matter what. So they don't put any real discounts on year 1 so they can milk those customers, then they apply the discounts for the rest. The discounts and deals are most likely planned from day one.

Originally Posted by ForgedReality

Nobody likes the 6th gen. Sales have been down ever since the gen 5.5 because they decided to make the Camaro into an Integra or whatever the ****. Hopefully, it's just because everyone is waiting for the ZL1. :P

Not at all true, it's the price increase. It's a significantly better car than the 5th gen in every aspect. It's just the competition upped their game and put a lot of cash on the hood. Outside the Camaro world, most don't like the 5th gen but are interested in the 6th.

[Jeb114]

I think ford is smart here. Chevy is talking about 1le, ZL1. Ford is advertising everywhere, Mach 1, GT500, Cobra, and the Bullit cars for 2018. Why would you buy a 2017 mustang.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by ForgedReality

Nobody likes the 6th gen. Sales have been down ever since the gen 5.5 because they decided to make the Camaro into an Integra or whatever the ****. Hopefully, it's just because everyone is waiting for the ZL1. :P

I don't think that's true...

I think a lot of people really like the 6th Gen..but I think it's struggling to bring in new converts to GM. Example? The 2015 Mustang. It brought new people to Ford, not just the Mustang folks. However it looks like many of the people who are buying the 6th Gen Camaro are previous Camaro owners, IE repeat customers.

I think if the Camaro was bringing in tons of new people, with the discounts, etc...you'd see closer to 9,000 sales a month instead of the current rate. However I think the story of the 6th Gen is only beginning..lots more still to go.