[shogun37]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

What a disappointment. This car is priced at least $10K higher than what it is worth.

You pay more for Ford, and get less.

I own both, 1SS 1LE and GT/PP1 with extensive mods to fix the chassis and suspension. Till a few weeks ago I also had an EB/PP with all the same mods. The SS is by far the better car except for the cabin and driver 'visibility' and trunk.

The Mach1 is Ford's VERY belated attempt at matching a 1LE and if Ford had 2 brain cells they would have set the price point to be identical to a 1LE. But apparently "value preservation" rules the roost over there instead of taking a critical look at the competitive landscape.

I give it 6 months and the cars will be discounted just like the run of the mill models. I got my 1LE for 39k on 45k sticker. The GT was 34k/40k but I've put at least 3k into parts and labor.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

With the lack of content(features), I would still have to say no. $63K gets you a ZL1, 50 more HP and a ton more TQ, plus standard features including Recaros, heated and ventilated, heating steering wheel, BLIS, etc....thats more than $5K in value.

I will concede it isnt fair comparing the Camaro to the Mustang because GM has had the benefit of the Corvette to share costs with, but in the end of the day they are direct competitors so for a non-biased buyer it makes a big difference.

Definitely agree, just throwing it out there to see peoples opinions. I got my zle for $63.5k before taxes. That was also applying every discount/incentive they had. For another $5.5k I think the answer would be obvious. The cost sharing at gm is definitely helping consumers

[BlaqWhole]

When you compare Mustangs to Mustangs, then based on what you pay and what you get, the higher up trims seem worth the money. A GT can get into the high $40K to mid $50K. So for an extra few thousand smackeroos you can get the Mach1. That seems like a value.

However the problems come when you cross shop and compare the performance. At $58K you can get a Mach1. Or for $60K you can get a Base C8. Or for around that same price you can get the ZL1. But if you want ZL1 performance from a Mustang you gotta pay $75K...and throw in a markup.

Unfortunately Mustangs are the worst performance value on the planet right now. Even when you compare the CF GT500 to other cars in it's price range it is still not a good value. Ford has pretty much made standard ZL1 performance to be something that pretty much only people who are very well off can buy and that is a shame. At the price of the Mach1, I think I would have to be stupid to buy one. Like I said before, I'd rather get a GT Premium, throw a blower on it, hit it with some suspension work, and end up spending less than the 480 HP M1.

[crysalis_01]

So, we can all agree that for the most part Camaro give more performance per dollar. You'd have to be blind to miss that. However, what if the reasoning behind Ford pricing the way they do are is multifaceted?
Incorporating pieces from that Blaq has said, that within their own line up it appears to make sense, then add in the following:
Ford doesn't see the need to match Camaro performance/dollar pricing because in the current marketplace, Camaro is losing share. From a business paradigm they cannot see the benefit of such a strategy. Their end goal isn't to make the best pony car of all time, it's to make the best selling Mustang for right now. Is it a good reasoning? For them, sure. For the enthusiast, no, not at all.
But there are enough people still buying them, mark-ups or not, which is stupid, that Ford has no real reason to change the current sales/marketing/development strategy.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

So, we can all agree that for the most part Camaro give more performance per dollar. You'd have to be blind to miss that. However, what if the reasoning behind Ford pricing the way they do are is multifaceted?
Incorporating pieces from that Blaq has said, that within their own line up it appears to make sense, then add in the following:
Ford doesn't see the need to match Camaro performance/dollar pricing because in the current marketplace, Camaro is losing share. From a business paradigm they cannot see the benefit of such a strategy. Their end goal isn't to make the best pony car of all time, it's to make the best selling Mustang for right now. Is it a good reasoning? For them, sure. For the enthusiast, no, not at all.
But there are enough people still buying them, mark-ups or not, which is stupid, that Ford has no real reason to change the current sales/marketing/development strategy.

So are you condoning this from Ford? Are you, as an enthusiast, agreeing with this? It seems like you basically just said that as an enthusiast, Ford is being selfish and screwing you over...and you're saying that in defense of what they're doing. All they're concerned with is making money hand over fist. And allowing their dealerships to profit off people. And in the end everyone except for the customer makes out. Congrats to you then. Because Ford is making a killing. You should be proud.

Right now, Dodge and Chevy are the only companies making ultra powered vehicles for a reasonable price. What else is out there for the same price that gets you 717 HP or 650 HP? So you better hope and pray that they stay in the game. Otherwise you'll be buying 400 and 500 HP 12 sec cars with no features that cost $60K - $80K.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

Definitely agree, just throwing it out there to see peoples opinions. I got my zle for $63.5k before taxes. That was also applying every discount/incentive they had. For another $5.5k I think the answer would be obvious. The cost sharing at gm is definitely helping consumers

Good buy man!!!

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So are you condoning this from Ford? Are you, as an enthusiast, agreeing with this? It seems like you basically just said that as an enthusiast, Ford is being selfish and screwing you over...and you're saying that in defense of what they're doing. All they're concerned with is making money hand over fist. And allowing their dealerships to profit off people. And in the end everyone except for the customer makes out. Congrats to you then. Because Ford is making a killing. You should be proud.

Right now, Dodge and Chevy are the only companies making ultra powered vehicles for a reasonable price. What else is out there for the same price that gets you 717 HP or 650 HP? So you better hope and pray that they stay in the game. Otherwise you'll be buying 400 and 500 HP 12 sec cars with no features that cost $60K - $80K.

To me it seemed like he was just pointing it out. Car companies are in it to make money and sell cars, Ford is selling more Mustangs than GM is selling Camaros so you can't argue they are doing something right.

What I want to see is sales numbers of the top models, compared to the rates at which these buyers dump the over-prices underperformed and buy something of better value.

We all saw the market absolutely flooded with GT350's, hundreds of them sitting on lots lightly used. Finding a 1LE or ZL1 is nowhere near as easy. This tells a story too, but in the end of the day you cant knock Ford for making decisions in the interest of money, their faithful don't seem to care and I am not forced to buy their inferior product so whatever.

[shogun37]

The upcharge for Mach1 equipment (bits and bobs off of the GT350) should have been less than $3000. Ford thinks they can get $5000. We'll have to see what the consumer decides. Eventually the grim reaper of markdowns comes for every car. Ford made 8000 Bullitts in 2019, and around this time last year they were 15-20% off. Buying the car but not tracking it at all is just plain stupid - unless you like paying $5000 for a silly decal that says 'Mach 1' on it, and there are people who like owning several Mach cars just to say they do - mini "collectors" if you will.

Otherwise you can buy a 52K stickered GT Premium for 44k all the live long day and add the vinyl graphics and have the same thing. Once the Mach1 is in the pipeline I might buy the trans and it's cooler from the parts sites and retrofit to my '19. I already have the BoM for the diff cooler which will be located internal to the car and installed by a shop for 1/2 the price of the kit if I bought it from Ford. I hope to work with Steeda to marry up a race radiator and mondo oil cooler into a nice, clean single-row solution.

[seethruya]

The Mach 1 ($52,915) = Mustang GT ($35,880) with PP2 ($6,500), Power Pack 3/GT350 manifold ($2,395), Tremec TR-3160 ($4,500, going rate for new trans w/conv kit). Grand total of $49,275. Add in ground effects and a decal package, Mach 1! Nothing about it excites me.

Even though the GT350 manifold will give you a slight peak horsepower advantage and makes power till about 7,800rpms, the 2018+ GT manifold has a much better mid-range and outperforms the GT350 manifold until about 7,400-7,500rpms where it dies off. There’s no performance gain with the GT350 manifold N/A. Outside of the TR-3160, it’s just meh to me.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

It all comes down to each manufacturer's strategy for their pony/muscle car:

Ford - make a car that does well on the track (9/10) and on the street. Therefore some compromises to chassis needed to make it ride well on the street, along with better visibility, and more usable space in the interior and trunk to appeal to more people (and therefore sell more). Overall, a more livable car. Top trims are great on the track (GT350R, GT500 CFTP), but esp. the GT500, livable on the street, with middle trims a step behind Camaro on the track, but ahead on the street.

Chevy - Make a car that handles 10/10 (great chassis engineering) but is compromised on the street (esp. at ZLE levels), and handles 10/10 on the track, and caters to enthusiasts, but leaves many people without a desire for one because of the livability compromises (visibility, usable space, trunk, etc.). Good value for enthusiast performance, but less value for most people.

Dodge - Make a big burly GT cruiser that does neither straight line or turn very well because of the size and mass, but is roomy, and powerful, and if they had better seats, a great long range GT cruiser. Ride quality is good on the street, but the car is too big to be a great track car and too heavy to be a great straight line car. Lots of usable interior space, big trunk, comfy, etc. Just add power to keep people interested. Hellcat Challenger weighs 4,530 lbs., Hellcat Charger is over 4,600 lbs.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by seethruya

The Mach 1 ($52,915) = Mustang GT ($35,880) with PP2 ($6,500), Power Pack 3/GT350 manifold ($2,395), Tremec TR-3160 ($4,500, going rate for new trans w/conv kit). Grand total of $49,275. Add in ground effects and a decal package, Mach 1! Nothing about it excites me.

Even though the GT350 manifold will give you a slight peak horsepower advantage and makes power till about 7,800rpms, the 2018+ GT manifold has a much better mid-range and outperforms the GT350 manifold until about 7,400-7,500rpms where it dies off. There’s no performance gain with the GT350 manifold N/A. Outside of the TR-3160, it’s just meh to me.

Most of this is false.

The Mach 1 is not just a PP2 with a Tremec, GT350 intake, and stickers. It also shares some chassis parts with the GT350 and GT500, and obviously has the coolers necessary for extended track work.

Regarding the GT350 vs 2018 Manifold: It's been proven on the Mustang forums that a GT350 intake manifold makes a quicker car than a ported '18 manifold. The GT350 manifold makes about the same peak hp as a ported 2018 GT manifold, but the GT350 mani has a flatter high rpm hp curve and therefore has a higher average hp in the top end, and actually accelerates quicker than the same car with a ported 2018 GT manifold.

I decided to just port my stock 2018 intake manifold because to go ported GT350 would have cost a lot more.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

To me it seemed like he was just pointing it out. Car companies are in it to make money and sell cars, Ford is selling more Mustangs than GM is selling Camaros so you can't argue they are doing something right.

What I want to see is sales numbers of the top models, compared to the rates at which these buyers dump the over-prices underperformed and buy something of better value.

We all saw the market absolutely flooded with GT350's, hundreds of them sitting on lots lightly used. Finding a 1LE or ZL1 is nowhere near as easy. This tells a story too, but in the end of the day you cant knock Ford for making decisions in the interest of money, their faithful don't seem to care and I am not forced to buy their inferior product so whatever.

The educated buyer will get the most for their money. It is always on the consumer to do their own research and not buy on emotion. It is a lesson I have learned the hard way (16' M3), and something I take with me moving forward.

Ford will get their asking price from uninformed buyers or Ford fanboys, but what do you expect, they are just like any other company out there, the bottom line is profit and Net income.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The educated buyer will get the most for their money. It is always on the consumer to do their own research and not buy on emotion. It is a lesson I have learned the hard way (16' M3), and something I take with me moving forward.

Ford will get their asking price from uninformed buyers or Ford fanboys, but what do you expect, they are just like any other company out there, the bottom line is profit and Net income.

Exactly. They have struck a winning balance, they won't change until lack of sales forces them to.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I decided to just port my stock 2018 intake manifold because to go ported GT350 would have cost a lot more.

LOL, WOW!! It's only $1000 for a brand new one. Surely you aren't telling me it is THAT expensive that you had to resort to porting yours. I had one on my 15. With the matching TB. LOL!! You Ford guys make me laugh man.