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Old 11-09-2007, 02:44 PM   #15
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Umm, what do the automakers care about oil changes and gas milage? Those are in the domain of big oil, not detroit.

One thing that people always ignore is that you can never have it all. There are 3 basic laws to engineering
1) If something can go wrong, eventually it will (aka Murphy's Law)
2) Of low cost, reliability, and quality (ie performance, refinement, comfort, etc), pick two!
3) Its not possible to over-estimate the power of complete idiots

What does all that mean? Well if you ever want something that lasts forever and provides amazing performance it will cost a fortune. However, it will eventually break, and that will happen a lot sooner if an idiot gets a hold of it.

For example, to the engine you mentioned, the oil issues require very tight tollerences (expensive) with materials that don't wear away (also expensive) that don't transmit much heat (expensive). Next you want these engines to have three times as much power as most engines on the market today. Guess what, the more power you produce, the more heat you make. And oil doesn't like heat. So you need to develop a way to keep the engine cool while running (expensive). And it needs to be fuel efficient? That will require very precise mechanisms for fuel delivery and near perfect burning of the fuel within the engine. I'm not even sure if its possible to get 35 mpg with a 350 hp car in real driving conditions. Anyway, all of the advanced little bits of technology are things that can break. So you need to make them indestructable (expensive). So unless you are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, its not going to happen. Or you could change the oil and buy a bit more gasoline.

We have came a long way in 40 years but there just isn't that much more that can be done. The internal combustion engine isn't all that efficient, and its over 100 years old. It's potential is nearly maxed out, not quite, but almost. Sure we could make smaller cars with carbon fibre weighing 1500 lbs and get away with having 25 hp engines and get 60 mpg. But I don't want a car like that. I want a 3500 lb 400 hp V8 camaro that gets 25-30 mpg.
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
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Old 11-09-2007, 03:18 PM   #16
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If I were multiple persons, you'd get a standing ovation.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:01 PM   #17
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:51 PM   #18
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you forgot safety devices! but other than that, standing ovation.

the one thing I want to know is why GM detunes the Corvette engine for the Camaro? oh, and I dont care if gas gets to $10.00 a gallon, id still have a full tank. I might only drive once a month, but id still drive!!!
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:21 PM   #19
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the one thing I want to know is why GM detunes the Corvette engine for the Camaro?
Are you referring to the 4th gens? cause, if you are...A little birdy told me that they didn't. The numbers were "fudged". And that the 'SS', with all the SLP crap, could outrun the same-year base Corvette...

NOT something corvette owners would be too happy about. :eek:

And did you notice, that in every LS1 vehicle, Goat, Corvette...and that's about it, except the Camaro/Firebird had an advertised 350hp? whereas the fbodys were 320-ish (forgot the exact number)

(I'm sure I crapped on some of those numbers, but you get the idea)
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Old 11-10-2007, 01:15 AM   #20
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yes and no...in fuel yes i can see your point but in overall efficiency? correct me if i'm wrong but didn't guys from MIT 20 years ago or so build a car that could go like 100k before it need an oil change?? and one of the big 3 came in, bought it, and we have never seen it since.

i'm ripping on the auto companies, it is all about money. why would an auto company come out with a car that could get 50+ mpg, 50k before oil change, and have 350+hp? we would all buy one and drive the wheels off of it. first year sales would be great but second would be down, then third and so on. i think CAFE is to force them to do something. other than make ugly cars that get great gas like the pyrus.
Sorry, but this is BIG TIME BS… You can add this with all the other “The BIG THREE bought them out” BS stories…
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Old 11-10-2007, 03:47 AM   #21
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GM is notorious for underrating their engines. Makes things easier on the insurance front. I appreciate it.

And yes, the Big 3 buying out some miracle technology and then killing it stories are dime a dozen. Check Snopes.com; they're there.
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Old 11-11-2007, 02:44 AM   #22
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The internal combustion engine isn't all that efficient, and its over 100 years old. It's potential is nearly maxed out, not quite, but almost.
so are you saying that it is time to come up with a different type of engine??
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the Big 3 buying out some miracle technology and then killing it stories are dime a dozen. Check Snopes.com
i forgot about snopes...like i said i wasn't ripping.... just wondering
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:25 AM   #23
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so are you saying that it is time to come up with a different type of engine??
lets all get jet turbine engines!!!! the ones on my plane run at around 98.799999999999% efficiency. then again, they are 4 times the size of my car and create 45,000lbs of thrust. should get you from a to b pretty quick.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:33 AM   #24
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so are you saying that it is time to come up with a different type of engine??
I believe chrysler experimented with turbine engines 50 years ago. And GM and Toyota have colaborated on fuel cell research (yes they co-operate on several things). But turbines didn't catch on and fuel cells require billions of investment for the infrastructure needed to fuel them. So while the infernal combustion engine isn't the greatest we don't really have a better alternative right now
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:11 AM   #25
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lets all get jet turbine engines!!!!
like this

this link tells about the car http://youtube.com/watch?v=TSn2igZtuPA

this one you can see it go http://youtube.com/watch?v=m90BhJXZAXc
might be fun to try
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:42 PM   #26
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This is now the second or third discovery of a LOT of oil in Ultra-Deep water... look it up. There are a dozen or more rigs in the Gulf of Mexico alone that are drilling over 20,000 feet below the surface of the water.

From what I read (in Popular Mechanics I think) is that below 40,000 ft the temperatures are too high to support oil (it just breaks down completely) so this is the area of last resort... once these reserves are gone (which WILL take a while) we are all done with oil.

I don't think oil prices are going to come down much though, all these new sources of oil will only really meet the increasing demand from other parts of the world. Once China and India come online, we are going to be screwed anyway...

It's amazing technology though!

~LSx
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:20 PM   #27
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oh, I wish this administration would get aout of office already. Then SOMEBODY, I don't care who, can push for alternative fuel sources.

GM alone with the Volt and E85 isn't gonna be enough. it's a great start, but they need money, and funds, and government sponsorship/marketing, so the public can realize this is the real deal.
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:16 PM   #28
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oh, I wish this administration would get aout of office already. Then SOMEBODY, I don't care who, can push for alternative fuel sources.

GM alone with the Volt and E85 isn't gonna be enough. it's a great start, but they need money, and funds, and government sponsorship/marketing, so the public can realize this is the real deal.
Problem is, the bulk of the energy for the united states is in fossil fuels. Ethanol currently takes more energy to make than it gives. Same with hydrogen. So you need to find sources of energy because the current fuels are little more than the chemical equivelent of batteries.

Half of your electicity comes from coal. And while electic seems better when looking purely at emissions, over 20% electicity generated is wasted in transmission from the plant to the city. Electic cars powered by coal power plants will reduce dependance on foriegn oil, but it won't do much to reduce total emissions.

so for actual energy sources that can create electricity then be converted to other forms lets see:
solar energy just isn't efficient enough. Wind has some promise but massive wind farms are noisy, ugly, and unreliable. Hydro-electric has been nearly tapped out in the developed world. However there is development being done by placing turbines in rivers, like a cross between wind and hydro-electric damms. Coal, fuel oil, and natural gas all pollute. It should be noted that these sources can be used directly or be coverted to burn in an internal combustion engine. People fear nuclear fission. Nuclear fusion has tremendous potential but is 20 years away, and it has been that way for the last 30 years.

This isn't a question about getting someone who will put forth the effort to make a new technology availible. Its about people making a choice, what is the lesser of all the evils? Buying expensive oil? Using coal? Building dozens or hundreds of nuclear power plants? covering the lanscape with wind mills? Of course the answer is to use a mix of all the above to minimize all the negative effects. But it won't solve the problems, just cause new ones to be solved later.

Wow. I guess I kinda kept on going there . . . I do that when I get technical. I had one half as long but it was political, I avoid politics on this forum. I have another one that I go to for that stuff
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Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
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