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Old 12-07-2017, 10:48 AM   #29
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Oops, no Mustang? It’s amazing how Chevy got most intangibles right the first time, and they still have a second shot at it with the refresh. I’m honestly surprised that the Stang didn’t make the list, because it seems to be an amazing car after the refresh. What a time to be a car enthusiast...

Let’s just take a moment to acknowledge the lack of a BMW on the list. Is it the lack of a manual M car, the lack of M Power, or the lack of M value? The dropped the V8, they dropped the manual, they’re even phasing out RWD. And to pay $64,000 for a BASE model M4, which has mustang GT power and 1SS standard features, it’s just crazy. I liked their naturally aspirated straight sixes and V8 m5s... but man has BMW Fallen off the performance market.
A base M4 will cost a lot more and you’d likely have to order it to get it built as such, which makes the price less negotiable. Also, it ends up being fairly stripped compared to some of the features you might expect or that are optional. M2 is more of a complete package with few available options. BMW owner here.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:46 AM   #30
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How can the same car be on a 10 best list like this one and then also be on the 10 worst reliable car list? Who is bullshitting who here?
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:23 PM   #31
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How can the same car be on a 10 best list like this one and then also be on the 10 worst reliable car list? Who is bullshitting who here?
Two different lists measuring two different things. One measures how well the cars do what they are intended to do. Camaro punches way above its weight class there. The other measures problems per 1,000 vehicles over a period of time. It does not weight the seriousness of those things gone wrong. Can’t pair my phone to Bluetooth I and wireless charger doesn’t work get counted as much as burns too much oil. For years (decades?) Jaguars have been among the most unreliable cars. But still, they are awesome automobiles.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Two different lists measuring two different things. One measures how well the cars do what they are intended to do. Camaro punches way above its weight class there. The other measures problems per 1,000 vehicles over a period of time. It does not weight the seriousness of those things gone wrong. Can’t pair my phone to Bluetooth I and wireless charger doesn’t work get counted as much as burns too much oil. For years (decades?) Jaguars have been among the most unreliable cars. But still, they are awesome automobiles.
That's the thing that I hate about those lists. A lot of those "problems" are user error
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:33 PM   #33
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How can the same car be on a 10 best list like this one and then also be on the 10 worst reliable car list? Who is bullshitting who here?
If the list is put out by Consumer Reports, it is absolute 100% bullshit.
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:38 PM   #34
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Didn't last long. Consumer Reports Ranked These Cars Worst in Reliability for 2018.

10. Chevrolet Camaro

We know Camaro is among the worst cars for visibility, but its high road score and impeccable owner satisfaction make its reliability rating a puzzler. There were a few areas (paint, exhaust) that saw declines over the past few years, but the feedback on its transmission system made it a flop in 2017. Other weak spots of recent years (e.g., power equipment, electronics) remained unreliable, while Camaro’s drive system also floundered.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:18 PM   #35
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Didn't last long. Consumer Reports Ranked These Cars Worst in Reliability for 2018.

10. Chevrolet Camaro

We know Camaro is among the worst cars for visibility, but its high road score and impeccable owner satisfaction make its reliability rating a puzzler. There were a few areas (paint, exhaust) that saw declines over the past few years, but the feedback on its transmission system made it a flop in 2017. Other weak spots of recent years (e.g., power equipment, electronics) remained unreliable, while Camaro’s drive system also floundered.
Car & Driver is not Consumer Reports. Their lists look at different things.

For CR, everything is an appliance -even cars. As such, the biggest sin that can be committed in their eyes is being unreliable. After all, an appliance that doesn't work is utterly worthless. Meanwhile, C&D is for enthusiasts. Enjoyment is the most important thing. Faults can be overlooked so long as its still fun to dive.
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Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:58 PM   #36
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Speaking of Consumer Reports, I remembered I had a pdf of their 2017 review. I enjoy how they view it as an appliance (understandable for their organisation) and then list "image may not fit your persona" as a con. That's pretty subjective in my books.
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File Type: pdf CR Report.pdf (77.7 KB, 146 views)
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:41 PM   #37
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I’ve never had much confidence in Consumer Reports. They don’t drive my purchasing decisions.
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:00 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Car & Driver is not Consumer Reports. Their lists look at different things.

For CR, everything is an appliance -even cars. As such, the biggest sin that can be committed in their eyes is being unreliable. After all, an appliance that doesn't work is utterly worthless. Meanwhile, C&D is for enthusiasts. Enjoyment is the most important thing. Faults can be overlooked so long as its still fun to dive.
They do and absolutely should rate it as an appliance. The rating is specifically on reliability, not on performance or looks. And quite frankly, there are plenty plenty reasons that ranking is warranted, just browse these forums. As an enthusiast, I was fully aware of the CR ratings, and still chose to purchase the car in spite of them. However, I'm an enthusiast, a lot of people are legitimately looking for just a car.
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:03 PM   #39
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I’ve never had much confidence in Consumer Reports. They don’t drive my purchasing decisions.
"1-5" star ratings on Amazon have more legitimacy than Consumer Reports as far as I'm concerned.
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