[Red Chief]

First off, I know these giant corporations do everything as a team so no one individual deserves complete credit and/or blame for the Camaro program. These are my overall thoughts on Al's time as the Camaro team leader.

Positives:
-Successfully brought back the Camaro during an economic downturn. The Camaro we saw in the Transformers movie was nothing but a concept car that was never designed for mass production. The 400HP powerplant in the base SS made a strong statement to car buyers and put enormous pressure on Ford. The 300HP base V6 even gave the Mustang GT nightmares when it launched.

-Between the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 trims, the Camaro reached supercar levels of performance. The Corvette barrier was broken and we may never see pure combustion cars mass produced in this way again.

-The 5th gen is still one of the best-looking pony cars and even now draws admiring stares on the road.

Negatives
-The emphasis on track times and handling--carbon ceramic brakes on the z/28 for instance--wasn't the crowdpleasing direction that the Hellcat and GT500 gave fans.

-The 6th gen sacrificed almost everything for the sake of performance and handling. From mainstream accessibility that was lost due to visibility issues(acting on feedback from a few Camaro diehards wasn't the right move) to the higher price of the SS trim, the 6th gen was generally overpriced for the average buyer who will never track their car.

-The 6th gen should have gotten a completely new body design. It retains the basic profile of the 5th gen while missing the sexy details that made that car so admired.

The Future of the Camaro
-I'm not clear what drove up the price of the 6th gen so significantly but at this point the higher price simply cannot be justified. That said, the chassis is still more advanced than what Ford and Dodge have to offer and it's safe to say no more R&D dollars need to be spent on improving the handling.

-I don't think we necessarily need a 7th gen. Aesthetics need to be prioritized and there's an apparent disconnect from the designers at GM and the general public. There are alot of subtle ways to get body designs and refreshes pre-approved by the public in the age of the internet.

[Ryanbabz71]

Significant price increase? Msrp on my 2012 convertible was $44K and the msrp on my 2018 1LE was also 44K. My 18 is not even comparable to the 12 I feel price wise it was a steal.


Ryan B.

[samurai]

To me the new platform and high performance was actually the point why I wanted the SS over a Mustang GT or Challenger. I had a 15 GT and it was fine, but you really had to invest a lot of money to make it a good sportscar (and I don't mean driving on the track, but driving on backroads and highspeed on the autobahn). The SS is a beast directly from the factory and the NPP also sounds really amazing.



I also love the styling. I don't get that is too similiar to a 14 since Challenger is having the same styling for 10+ years and the 13 GT refresh was also pretty close to the 15 model. Pictures don't reveal all the lines that the 6th gen has over the blocky exterior of the 14, but parked next to each other they are cleary completely different cars.


I get that someone who just wants a V8 daily driver for a cheap price were disappointed in the 6th gen. The car really went away from that.



But to be on topic, I overall think Al did a great job with the Camaro, but the current refresh showed that it was time for someone new. Not because of the exterior, I think it can look really cool in certain builds, but the total lack of new features that make people want to buy the 19 over the 18. Infotainment update, Rear camera mirror, 10AT instead of 8AT - Nothing sounds like a big seller to me when you can save a lot of money on a 18 model.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

First off, I know these giant corporations do everything as a team so no one individual deserves complete credit and/or blame for the Camaro program. These are my overall thoughts on Al's time as the Camaro team leader.

Positives:
-Successfully brought back the Camaro during an economic downturn. The Camaro we saw in the Transformers movie was nothing but a concept car that was never designed for mass production. The 400HP powerplant in the base SS made a strong statement to car buyers and put enormous pressure on Ford. The 300HP base V6 even gave the Mustang GT nightmares when it launched.

-Between the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 trims, the Camaro reached supercar levels of performance. The Corvette barrier was broken and we may never see pure combustion cars mass produced in this way again.

-The 5th gen is still one of the best-looking pony cars and even now draws admiring stares on the road.

I have to be honest, I get the love of the 5th gen for the Camaro fans. The car was brought back, they used the same nostalgia technique as Ford and used elements of the 1st gen for the design. But to me, overall, and not as a badge fan, it was kind of boring. And that interior simply didn't help.

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Negatives
-The emphasis on track times and handling--carbon ceramic brakes on the z/28 for instance--wasn't the crowdpleasing direction that the Hellcat and GT500 gave fans.

-The 6th gen sacrificed almost everything for the sake of performance and handling. From mainstream accessibility that was lost due to visibility issues(acting on feedback from a few Camaro diehards wasn't the right move) to the higher price of the SS trim, the 6th gen was generally overpriced for the average buyer who will never track their car.

I couldn't disagree more on all these points. The Z/28 was always a track car to begin with. The ZL1, maybe another story. But quite honestly, the 1LE and sports car focus is the number one reason I'm in one right now. I would not have even looked at one if not for the focus on driving pleasure and performance, it is the absolute correct direction. There are M3/M4 and Porsche owners that have sold their cars to buy a Camaro, when has that ever happened before? As far as the value proposition, bar none nothing even comes close to what the SS offers. Yes, the Mustang is two grand less, but that base model lacks simple features that are now standard on any $35K car. You get to stare at a calculator screen, on a $35K car. To match what the 1SS offers you have to step up a package, which not incidentally costs $2K, at which point the prices are the same. But if you want to come even close to the 1SS performance you need to get the Performance Package on the Ford, so now it's more expensive. The Camaro is only overpriced if you look at the price alone and don't know what it offers. That's where Chevy has failed, marketing. Not many actually know what a bargain the car is, those that do own one. And as far as the 'sacrifice' comment, what makes you think the design was sacrificed for the sake of performance? Is there actual evidence to back this? A reference? I don't think that's the case at all, I think they went with improving on the 5th gen look because it was successful, instead of going a new route. They simply missed the boat there in the overall appeal.

Originally Posted by Red Chief

-The 6th gen should have gotten a completely new body design. It retains the basic profile of the 5th gen while missing the sexy details that made that car so admired.

It's true that it retained the basic profile, and I agree that it looks too much like the 5th gen. But overall it is a brand new design on a new platform. Which 'sexy details' are you referring to? Because I prefer the 6th gen to the 5th in terms of looks.

Originally Posted by Red Chief

The Future of the Camaro
-I'm not clear what drove up the price of the 6th gen so significantly but at this point the higher price simply cannot be justified. That said, the chassis is still more advanced than what Ford and Dodge have to offer and it's safe to say no more R&D dollars need to be spent on improving the handling.

-I don't think we necessarily need a 7th gen. Aesthetics need to be prioritized and there's an apparent disconnect from the designers at GM and the general public. There are alot of subtle ways to get body designs and refreshes pre-approved by the public in the age of the internet.

Considering the 6th gen gives you M3/M4 level performance, price hike was inevitable. Ultimately though, it's still the bargain of the century. Just too bad no one knows this and people still buy cars on name, nostalgia, and looks alone.

[AZCamaroFan]

you're throwing all sorts of things in there that he's not in charge of. He's not a 'designer', he doesn't set the price.

[Michael2000]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Negatives
-The emphasis on track times and handling--carbon ceramic brakes on the z/28 for instance--wasn't the crowdpleasing direction that the Hellcat and GT500 gave fans.

-The 6th gen sacrificed almost everything for the sake of performance and handling. From mainstream accessibility that was lost due to visibility issues(acting on feedback from a few Camaro diehards wasn't the right move) to the higher price of the SS trim, the 6th gen was generally overpriced for the average buyer who will never track their car.

-The 6th gen should have gotten a completely new body design. It retains the basic profile of the 5th gen while missing the sexy details that made that car so admired.

The performance put the Camaro on the map. Al offered two versions of every model, a street/track compromise, or track focused model for every engine. That was an excellent strategy, and I wish other car models offered that, including the Corvette. Everyone got what they wanted. What more could ask for?

Al was not the designer of the car.

Al was not the marketing manager setting the price of the car.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

you're throwing all sorts of things in there that he's not in charge of. He's not a 'designer', he doesn't set the price.

That REALLY needed to be said.

[redcoats1976]

i think it would be hard to top his tenure as the head of the camaro team.from 1LT models to the ZL-1,with many steps in between,every base was covered.my 2015 RS is configured as an older mans luxury cruiser,while others preferred a 1SS or perhaps a 1LT.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by metros11

I have to be honest, I get the love of the 5th gen for the Camaro fans. The car was brought back, they used the same nostalgia technique as Ford and used elements of the 1st gen for the design. But to me, overall, and not as a badge fan, it was kind of boring. And that interior simply didn't help.



I couldn't disagree more on all these points. The Z/28 was always a track car to begin with. The ZL1, maybe another story. But quite honestly, the 1LE and sports car focus is the number one reason I'm in one right now. I would not have even looked at one if not for the focus on driving pleasure and performance, it is the absolute correct direction. There are M3/M4 and Porsche owners that have sold their cars to buy a Camaro, when has that ever happened before? As far as the value proposition, bar none nothing even comes close to what the SS offers. Yes, the Mustang is two grand less, but that base model lacks simple features that are now standard on any $35K car. You get to stare at a calculator screen, on a $35K car. To match what the 1SS offers you have to step up a package, which not incidentally costs $2K, at which point the prices are the same. But if you want to come even close to the 1SS performance you need to get the Performance Package on the Ford, so now it's more expensive. The Camaro is only overpriced if you look at the price alone and don't know what it offers. That's where Chevy has failed, marketing. Not many actually know what a bargain the car is, those that do own one. And as far as the 'sacrifice' comment, what makes you think the design was sacrificed for the sake of performance? Is there actual evidence to back this? A reference? I don't think that's the case at all, I think they went with improving on the 5th gen look because it was successful, instead of going a new route. They simply missed the boat there in the overall appeal.


It's true that it retained the basic profile, and I agree that it looks too much like the 5th gen. But overall it is a brand new design on a new platform. Which 'sexy details' are you referring to? Because I prefer the 6th gen to the 5th in terms of looks.



Considering the 6th gen gives you M3/M4 level performance, price hike was inevitable. Ultimately though, it's still the bargain of the century. Just too bad no one knows this and people still buy cars on name, nostalgia, and looks alone.

As for what was sacrificed? First let’s start with comments by GM at the Gen6 launch where stated they paid no attention to the rear seat simply because Consumer Reports only awards 1 point for a coupe so making better got them no extra points.

How about the simple fact two sets of golf clubs fit in the trunk of a Gen5 and unless you pull the driver and put it in the back seat you can’t put one bag in a Gen6. The trunk is smaller and that is a result of choices. Even the smallest car off of the Alpha architecture, the ATS, fits two sets.

And having made the trade offs, I can assure you choices were made.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

you're throwing all sorts of things in there that he's not in charge of. He's not a 'designer', he doesn't set the price.

That and fact that there are literally dozens of people involved in new model release. In today's automotive world one person does not make every decision on their own. There are way to many egos involved for that.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Number 3

As for what was sacrificed? First let’s start with comments by GM at the Gen6 launch where stated they paid no attention to the rear seat simply because Consumer Reports only awards 1 point for a coupe so making better got them no extra points.

How about the simple fact two sets of golf clubs fit in the trunk of a Gen5 and unless you pull the driver and put it in the back seat you can’t put one bag in a Gen6. The trunk is smaller and that is a result of choices. Even the smallest car off of the Alpha architecture, the ATS, fits two sets.

And having made the trade offs, I can assure you choices were made.

Okay, but how was this sacrificed for performance?

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

First off, I know these giant corporations do everything as a team so no one individual deserves complete credit and/or blame for the Camaro program. These are my overall thoughts on Al's time as the Camaro team leader.

Positives:
-Successfully brought back the Camaro during an economic downturn. The Camaro we saw in the Transformers movie was nothing but a concept car that was never designed for mass production. The 400HP powerplant in the base SS made a strong statement to car buyers and put enormous pressure on Ford. The 300HP base V6 even gave the Mustang GT nightmares when it launched.

-Between the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 trims, the Camaro reached supercar levels of performance. The Corvette barrier was broken and we may never see pure combustion cars mass produced in this way again.

-The 5th gen is still one of the best-looking pony cars and even now draws admiring stares on the road.

Negatives
-The emphasis on track times and handling--carbon ceramic brakes on the z/28 for instance--wasn't the crowdpleasing direction that the Hellcat and GT500 gave fans.

-The 6th gen sacrificed almost everything for the sake of performance and handling. From mainstream accessibility that was lost due to visibility issues(acting on feedback from a few Camaro diehards wasn't the right move) to the higher price of the SS trim, the 6th gen was generally overpriced for the average buyer who will never track their car.

-The 6th gen should have gotten a completely new body design. It retains the basic profile of the 5th gen while missing the sexy details that made that car so admired.

The Future of the Camaro
-I'm not clear what drove up the price of the 6th gen so significantly but at this point the higher price simply cannot be justified. That said, the chassis is still more advanced than what Ford and Dodge have to offer and it's safe to say no more R&D dollars need to be spent on improving the handling.

-I don't think we necessarily need a 7th gen. Aesthetics need to be prioritized and there's an apparent disconnect from the designers at GM and the general public. There are alot of subtle ways to get body designs and refreshes pre-approved by the public in the age of the internet.

The 6th Gen is sleeker than the 5th Gen and just looks better and I also had a 5th Gen. The visability are about the same in both. The 6th gen is faster and handles better. The interior looks better too. Nothing at all wrong with the 6th Gen, GM just failed to promote it like Dodge promoted their cars and lots of sale were lost to Dodge.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

The 6th Gen is sleeker than the 5th Gen and just looks better and I also had a 5th Gen. The visability are about the same in both. The 6th gen is faster and handles better. The interior looks better too. Nothing at all wrong with the 6th Gen, GM just failed to promote it like Dodge promoted their cars and lots of sale were lost to Dodge.

The sleeker part is what makes it not as nice looking as tbe 5th gen. Imo the identity was questionable with the 16 to 18 camaro. The 19 takes it further away. I think the style...which I don't think is terrible is part of the problem ...and your right about promoting the car. GM has zero going on for this car.

[Bosse'sBoss]

I personally think that Al O. did a great job with the Camaro starting with the 5th. gen ZL1, SS1LE and Z28. Personally I owned a 5th.gen ZL1 that I still consider that it is superior on its quality manufacturing compared to the Stingray which I bought to replace it.
But until now the 6th. gen platform/suspension design has been the best Camaro ever, its chassis has provided great handling and its very agile on the road going head to head with european exotics that cost double its price, and also would give a strong good fight at the track to the Stingray and Shelby GT350.
Maybe sales were not that good because the external design was very similar to the prior generation.
Al could be consider the Father of the new Camaro which has been a great road and track performer. I wonder what is going to happen to the Camaro's future without Al.