[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by JonDaddy82

Lincoln, any CJD product that's NOT a Wrangler, just insane how much they loose.

I do not agree on all CJD...our Grand Cherokee SRT is holding value very very well.

[wildchevy]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

The day electric cars will have an actual range comparable to fossil fuel cars and, more importantly, recharge times comparable to refueling times (and with filling station as easily found on the road) I will be interested...until then, enjoy being the early adopter, as far as I'm concerned I take a pass....

Can you imagine living in Key West and fleeing a hurricane in a Tesla or Leaf lol

[Artos]

What about the electrical infrastructure needed to power all of these vast multiple plug-ins at an expedient timeframe at homes & quickie marts across the US?? I don't think all the green energy / save the planet do-gooders grasp what it will take or how it is all tied together. For certain more oil/NG production will be needed simply to feed the very grid itself.

Follow the $$$.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by wildchevy

Can you imagine living in Key West and fleeing a hurricane in a Tesla or Leaf lol

That’s a NOPE. Can’t throw a pair of jerry cans in the trunk either for an extra 200 miles range.

Hybrids with 500+ mi range on the other hand can get another 500 with the same 2 cans when 90% of gas stations along I-75 have no gas like last year during Irma.

Everything has it’s place.

[Michael2000]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

So I sat down with the salesperson last night, he did pursue me very aggressively during the last two weeks to make an offer.


A white fully loaded automatic ZL1 stickering for 69K and change, they were asking off the bat 63.9 on their web page.

I showed them some dealers around the country offering similarly optioned ZL1 (more or less) as little as 56-57K.


So I offered 60K (+ sales taxes) for their ZL1 or 60.6 for a blue one on the east coast with the same options plus the Carbon Fiber instrument panel trim, transportation on me.



I asked 22K, less than the average dealer trade in transaction price on KBB for my ride, a loaded to the hilt 2014 Infiniti Q50 Sport AWD (MSRP almost 56K when new) with only 37700 miles, one owner (me), car never saw kids in the back, etc......very very good condition, new tires and brakes.


The manager did not protest the offer for the ZL1 but he came back with only 18K for my car.


Only 30% of the original sticker for a 37K miles car, optioned to the hilt (from 360 degrees cameras to Active Cruse control, AWD, sport seats, premium sound, etc, etc...).
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to keep it until the wheels fall off, this was a very good wake up call, if I needed one once more, a sobering reminder of the folly of the "new car every few years" mania......it is literally money down the toilet.


I cannot even imagine the money I would lose on a CTS-V, the other car I was interested in beside the ZL1, few years from now


Happy Thanksgiving!!!

You sure your KBB Trade-in value is $22K?


I just punched into KBB a 2014 Q50 37K miles, Premium version, used a Seattle zip code, set condition to "Very Good", and checked every option and package. It came up with $18K.

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by Michael2000

You sure your KBB Trade-in value is $22K?


I just punched into KBB a 2014 Q50 37K miles, Premium version, used a Seattle zip code, set condition to "Very Good", and checked every option and package. It came up with $18K.

Mine is Sport AWD (fully loaded) not Premium, significant difference in MSRP and residual value.


Mine is at 22K average Trade in and 26K average retail (KBB)......the few actual Q50 AWD Sport equipped like mine in my area have a asking price between 26 and 28K.

[Smokin19]

The new ZL1 will be the same price after the first of the year, your car will only go down lower. All of us think our cars are worth more, realty is, the market is full for used cars. Just look at the inventory on used car lots.

In todays market, "you gotta pay to play", just the way it is.

[BMWM.D.]

Originally Posted by Chris Edwards

^this. I drove a performance model Tesla Model 3 this past weekend and it was awesome enough to make me unload all my gas guzzling, depreciating GM junk for something fast as shit and useable 24/7 365. Tesla is totally changing the game and 95% of the junk on the road is a relic that will be nearly worthless very soon.

I guess that depends what you want and are into. Sure, the Model 3 Performance is quick off the line. About as quick as a stock A10 ZL1. But they trap what... like 114 mph in the quarter? C&D ran a 12.1 in one recently. I don’t consider that a match for the ZL1.

I ran a 10.7x at nearly 133 mph in mine with a few bolt-ons at Famoso in September in 1000+ DA. I know mine isn’t stock, but I don’t think there are any bolt-ons available to make the Model 3 put down anything close.

Electric cars are the future. There’s no doubt. But the infrastructure and value isn’t there yet. Nor is the battery tech, in my opinion.

[Outahand]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

I guess that depends what you want and are into. Sure, the Model 3 Performance is quick off the line. About as quick as a stock A10 ZL1. But they trap what... like 114 mph in the quarter? C&D ran a 12.1 in one recently. I don’t consider that a match for the ZL1.

I ran a 10.7x at nearly 133 mph in mine with a few bolt-ons at Famoso in September in 1000+ DA. I know mine isn’t stock, but I don’t think there are any bolt-ons available to make the Model 3 put down anything close.

Electric cars are the future. There’s no doubt. But the infrastructure and value isn’t there yet. Nor is the battery tech, in my opinion.

I don't think the Tesla can do a track day either.....

[Michael2000]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

Mine is Sport AWD (fully loaded) not Premium, significant difference in MSRP and residual value.


Mine is at 22K average Trade in and 26K average retail (KBB)......the few actual Q50 AWD Sport equipped like mine in my area have a asking price between 26 and 28K.

1) Asking price doesn't really mean anything. It's selling price that counts, and in your case, trade-in price.


2) Average retail doesn't mean anything for a trade.



3) You are trading it into a Chevy dealer, not an Infiniti dealer. The Chevy dealer will likely have to put the car to auction. They don't want to take a bath on it.


4) I reran the KBB numbers for the Sport, and every option and package (don't know if you have Touring and Technology packages). It still only came to $21,393.


5) Your car is fairly low miles. Cars in tip top shape with low miles are best sold by the owner to get the value.

[Michael2000]

Originally Posted by Outahand

I don't think the Tesla can do a track day either.....

The Model 3 with the Performance Package can do about three laps before it cuts power due to motor and battery heat, and the brakes start overheating. You also can't turn the stability control off, and it will interfere with your lap times. They have a new Track Mode on the Performance models only, but it still doesn't turn the stability control off. The other problem is the battery depletes fast on the track. You go out for a few laps, you will be looking for charging.


@Chris Edwards You better check the depreciation on a Model S. It's higher than a ZL1. A 2015 is worth less than half its original value. I don't see how a Model 3 will be any different, especially once they pump out 500,000 of them.

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by Michael2000

1) Asking price doesn't really mean anything. It's selling price that counts, and in your case, trade-in price.

...are they gonna discount 4K on a used car?? Again, 26-28K is the asking price of a car similar to mine around here.

3) You are trading it into a Chevy dealer, not an Infiniti dealer. The Chevy dealer will likely have to put the car to auction. They don't want to take a bath on it.

Good point, as a matter of fact yesterday I just asked over the phone to an Infiniti dealer (I texted to him the original sticker of my car) how much I would get for my Q50 pretending to be interested in the new Q50 Red Sport 400 and they offered 21K at a first attempt.

By the way, in 2015 I got trade-in KBB figures for my 5 years old Acura TL when we got a Grand Cherokee SRT (8K off sticker)...it took time and patience but I did....however they did sell the car themselves, I saw it advertised few days later on their web site asking 7K more than what they gave me.

4) I reran the KBB numbers for the Sport, and every option and package (don't know if you have Touring and Technology packages). It still only came to $21,393.

I have both packages....the night of the failed attempt I run the numbers and for my zip code came out an average of 22.8K for trade-in.

5) Your car is fairly low miles. Cars in tip top shape with low miles are best sold by the owner to get the value.

I agree and that is what I will probably do...my cars are always kept in tip top shape so there is no reason to leave dollars on the table for me, I do not care about the hassle of selling it myself if that avoids me taking a huge hit.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by Michael2000

The Model 3 with the Performance Package can do about three laps before it cuts power due to motor and battery heat, and the brakes start overheating. You also can't turn the stability control off, and it will interfere with your lap times. They have a new Track Mode on the Performance models only, but it still doesn't turn the stability control off. The other problem is the battery depletes fast on the track. You go out for a few laps, you will be looking for charging.

A Tesla 3 went fast enough to take 2nd place in Enthusiast AWD at Global Time Attack Super Lap at Buttonwillow earlier this month. It ended up being disqualified due to a rules technicality (class required cars to run on gasoline or diesel). It was running ~2:00 flat. By comparison, a ZL1 running in Street RWD was running ~1:53.6...

http://globaltimeattack.com/gta-fina...-2018-results/

Pic by Carbage Online



This is a time attack format, which is more favorable to electric cars than a traditional W2W race. Also, the team was set up to support an electric car effort.

There's no question the electrics are starting to show some pretty good performance numbers, but it will be a long time before they are as effective as traditional fueled vehicles for track work, or any kind of longer distance driving.

[Michael2000]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

...are they gonna discount 4K on a used car?? Again, 26-28K is the asking price of a car similar to mine around here.



Good point, as a matter of fact yesterday I just asked over the phone to an Infiniti dealer (I texted to him the original sticker of my car) how much I would get for my Q50 pretending to be interested in the new Q50 Red Sport 400 and they offered 21K at a first attempt.

By the way, in 2015 I got trade-in KBB figures for my 5 years old Acura TL when we got a Grand Cherokee SRT (8K off sticker)...it took time and patience but I did....however they did sell the car themselves, I saw it advertised few days later on their web site asking 7K more than what they gave me.



I have both packages....the night of the failed attempt I run the numbers and for my zip code came out an average of 22.8K for trade-in.



I agree and that is what I will probably do...my cars are always kept in tip top shape so there is no reason to leave dollars on the table for me, I do not care about the hassle of selling it myself if that avoids me taking a huge hit.

I think that is your best bet. Detail the car inside, outside, underneath, and engine compartment. A car that was well taken car of will show really well after that. Have all the service receipts and manuals. If you are patient, you'll get top dollar.