Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > V6 LGX Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


BeckyD @ James Martin Chevy


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2020, 11:08 AM   #1
Sov2487
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro RS V6
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1
Mishimoto SS catch can. Will it work on the V6?

As the title states, I looking to buy a catch can and the Mishimoto one for the SS is the one I’m leaning toward if it’ll work with the V6.
Sov2487 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2020, 08:28 AM   #2
DIYguy
 
DIYguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: California
Posts: 241
Question

There are many differing opinions on this, and this is just mine.
So FWIW......

You don't need a catch can with the LGX V6 engines.
It will be nothing but engine bling.
Under-hood jewelry.
The air/oil separator that the designers put on these particular engines does a superb job.
The intake tube and manifold on mine are literally bone dry even after 47k miles.
There is nothing coming through the crankcase vent line to "catch".
I had mine apart two days ago while doing some throttle body work.
Completely dry. Oil free.

A counter argument has been posed (mainly by people selling catch cans) that because it does such a good job all the stuff that would be caught by a catch can ends up in the oil.
OK, but you are supposed to be using oil that is designed for direct injection in these engines.
So there is less of a problem to start with.

At least one catch can design creates a leak in the intake manifold (drilled hole).
This then increases removal of material from the crankcase (this is per their own words).
So basically they are creating a situation for their devices to operate and produce results from that did not exist before.

I do my own oil changes at roughly 3500-4000 mile intervals (I never rely upon the oil life indicator).
I can do about eight oil changes for less money than a high end catch can costs.
But I have to do them anyway, so it is money in the bank as far as I am concerned.
And oil changes at reasonable intervals (including the transmission) are cheap insurance on many fronts.

I am not trying to start a posting war or anything.
However, typically within the next 2-3 postings you will next see one from a vendor who will tell you in very alarming terms the exact opposite.
Consider the source and who would be profiting from a potential sale.

That being said, and to be completely fair to them, on older V6's like the LFX or on V8's, yes you probably do need a catch can.
And theirs are actually quite well engineered and highly regarded, I am NOT criticizing their product.
They can be quite good, as long as you actually need one.

So, FWIW, my opinion is- save your money, change your oil at less than 4k miles or whenever the oil service indicator gets down to around 50%.
GM got it right with the LGX engine (other than the AFM).
Spend your hard-earned money elsewhere, like for a Range device.
You'll be much happier with the benefit you receive for your money (bang for buck).
__________________
Gen6 Camaro LT (my daily driver), Cruze ECO (grocery getter), Chevy SS Pickup (wife's daily driver), Honda Shadow, Honda CBX
DIYguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2020, 09:50 AM   #3
cellsafemode


 
cellsafemode's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 3,491
Most V6's do not seem to suffer any significant blowby...as posted above.

But if you do, and you want a catch can (i have a universal mishimoto can) .... you can diy a mount fairly easily and paint it your engine bay color and be fine.

I would suggest not cutting the PCV tubes as nobody really stocks them these days it seems and they cost about a hundred bucks to replace if you need to for inspection. Instead run some fuel + oil certified hose from the connectors at the end of the pcv hose to the can and back to the intake bridge. Or order the part from a dealer way ahead of time so you have a stock spare pcv hose for later.

Either way, you dont need much more than the can, some fuel/oil certified hose to connect and a bit of metal to mount the can to. Autozone and home depot should handle that.

You'll be a paying a hefty premium on top of their universal mount can for the SS one and you'll still have to mod it and may not be able to use the mount they provide anyway (not sure if it fits anywhere on the v6).
cellsafemode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2020, 11:55 AM   #4
Elite Engineering


 
Elite Engineering's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,381
A few things to clarify with regard to the LGX engine for 2016 to present.


First, GM deleted the "Positive" function of the PCV system in order to slow the rate of coking with the goal being to reach 60k miles before the usual check engine lights pop up for misfires and other issues this causes, and they succeeded. But at the sacrifice of the engines life in exchange. Why? Then it is no longer a financial liability as far as warranty coverage.


But what is occurring with this backwards leap in Crankcase Evacuation Technology? Several thinks. First, the coking is still happening and while it may not show up as obvious in that first 50-60k miles, it is still occurring as these pictures at 70k miles on this 2017 Camaro show:







Sorry the pics are not clearer, but could not get the focus on the valves deep in the ports. But you can see the severity is evident, and you can see how this restricts and disrupts the entering air charge resulting in uneven A/F between cylinders.


What else is occurring? Well, as the damage and wear causing combustion byproducts are no longer flushed and evacuated using vacuum from the intake manifold, most all is now left IN the crankcase to accumulate and overwhelm the engine oil greatly increasing wear and damage over time. So most wont see alot of oil entering the intake tube just for this reason. For the first time since the early 1960's and before, GM has reversed the effectiveness of the PCV system, and the consumer looses long term.


Now, what is entering the crankcase? Lets look at a lab analysis done on what our systems trap and prevent from ingestion:






This is 70% water and acids (sulfuric being the most common)
23% raw fuel (all GDI engines experience raw fuel dilution of the oil as the fuel is introduced at 1.000-3,000 PSI and 8-12 times is pushed past the rings diluting the oil).
and only 7% is oil, and it is saturated with abrasive particulate matter (soot, ash, and carbon) with the carbon being a hard crystalline structure that is as abrasive as sand grains.


So, is it better to flush and remove this before it accumulates and settles? Take your time, there are still some that ignore all the facts and data and allow there engines to slowly deteriorate. And of course, we share actual pictures, lab results, and 3rd party independent study's by the most respected in the lubrication industry.


Now, if your making the investment, doesn't it also make more sense to choose a system that stops 95% plus over one that traps 15-20-30%? We would think that is a no brainer as well since we continue to offer the "Catchcan Challenge" such as this example here:


https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512223



And of course, a Forced induction GDI engine is exposed to far more of these combustion byproducts than a NA engine, and here we share a long term study being conducted on a twin turbo V6 making 20 plus # of boost, and driven hard. This is at over 13k miles, and we will share the same oil at 20k miles as well. Please read the comments left by the Lab tech:






Now, we make and offer the most effective and advanced systems on the market to combat this and protect your engine over time. We dont come on and post "assumptions" or blind claims as some are dead set on telling you to ignore all of this while they provide NO pictures, NO data, NO industry info on this....they just insult and post their "assumptions" based on no science or engineering. So take your time, read and study what we share, and above all, ASK questions! You should never blindly buy and install a product just because someone says so, you should wade through the BS and find actual data.


And as has been the case for years, we still are one of the ONLY companies that provide actual data and supporting facts including these engines tore down and sharing what is actually happening. There is no other design that comes close to being as effective at protecting your engine as ours does.


The LTG is perhaps the most critical to add this to where it will benefit the most.


Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com for assistance in choosing the proper system for your vehicle. Don't make assumptions.


Sales@EliteEngineeringUSA.com for ordering questions.


Cheers!!
Elite Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2020, 03:48 PM   #5
DIYguy
 
DIYguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: California
Posts: 241
And there it is.........

Note the 13,396 mile oil change interval cited. On a Ford.

It's your money, make your own choice.
I have made mine.
__________________
Gen6 Camaro LT (my daily driver), Cruze ECO (grocery getter), Chevy SS Pickup (wife's daily driver), Honda Shadow, Honda CBX
DIYguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 11:18 AM   #6
CamaroGen6
 
CamaroGen6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Dallas
Posts: 53
https://youtu.be/F4IE7HGf2i4

Skip to 13:05

Should we be worried about this amount of carbon build up at 30k miles without a catch can?
__________________
2020 Camaro 2SS
CamaroGen6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2020, 01:18 PM   #7
DIYguy
 
DIYguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: California
Posts: 241
Smile

It is a bit hard to tell from the video to be honest but it really didn't look all that bad to me.
The crud on the valve stems is quite likely due to seepage past the valve stem seals, but it is hardly excessive.
That being said, a catch can would not prevent that and the valve faces appear to be quite clean.
The intake passages did not look too bad either IMHO.
Sure there is carbon in them, but not anything even remotely like what is shown in Elite's photos (particularly the first one).

Mine were literally bone dry at 47k miles.
Perhaps a very light coating of carbon, but absolutely nothing to be concerned about.
So I still won't buy or install one on my car which has an LGX V6.

But not so for LFX V6 engines or for V8's.
Different animals.
For them, yes you probably should buy a catch can.

Do you want the full tilt boogie intake carbon experience?
Work on any Saturn 4 banger prior to 2002 and particularly prior to 2000.
Filthy dirty, oily, slimy, India ink black cruddy intakes that look exactly like the Elite photos and much worse.
Owners of those cars have to clean the slime off the back side of the throttle plate periodically (it is seriously bad).
On those cars you are foolish not to put a catch can on.
I had one for years as a commuter car, and totally overhauled the engine twice in a bit more than 200k miles.
So I know painfully well how dirty they can get even with a catch can (so I am not against catch cans at all).
But...
Different animals.



FWIW...
__________________
Gen6 Camaro LT (my daily driver), Cruze ECO (grocery getter), Chevy SS Pickup (wife's daily driver), Honda Shadow, Honda CBX
DIYguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2020, 04:55 PM   #8
Kairles
 
Kairles's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Krypton Green LS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 208
This was in my catch can after 2 track days.
Attached Images
 
Kairles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 09:25 PM   #9
Spudsmaro
 
Drives: 2021 LT1 6 SPEED MANUAL CAMARO
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: MD
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairles View Post
This was in my catch can after 2 track days.
fuel do you use and how much tracking do you do in 2 days?
Spudsmaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2020, 04:20 PM   #10
Kairles
 
Kairles's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Krypton Green LS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudsmaro View Post
fuel do you use and how much tracking do you do in 2 days?
I use 87, and a track day consist of 5(on average) 20 minute sessions. I also add the recommended 1qt.
Kairles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2020, 10:53 PM   #11
Bumbleboy92
Long hauler
 
Bumbleboy92's Avatar
 
Drives: 2022 Camaro 2SS 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,592
Don’t know if it’s relevant or not, but here’s what I got after 80k+ miles. I got it at 61k miles so who knows. Or this is completely unrelated I don’t know

https://youtu.be/VZPWgUavt64
__________________
2022 2SS 1LE - Cold Air Inductions Elite Carbon CAI
2016 1LT v6
- Totaled
Happiness: Infinite

Bumbleboy92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2020, 04:12 AM   #12
Kairles
 
Kairles's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Krypton Green LS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbleboy92 View Post
Don’t know if it’s relevant or not, but here’s what I got after 80k+ miles. I got it at 61k miles so who knows. Or this is completely unrelated I don’t know

https://youtu.be/VZPWgUavt64
Before I added a catch can(added at about 27k miles), I had oil in the sound tube, and the intake tube was saturated with oil. I also track the car frequently (7-10 days a year). No more oil in the intake after added a catch can.
Kairles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2020, 04:22 AM   #13
Kairles
 
Kairles's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Krypton Green LS 1LE
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Antelope, CA
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sov2487 View Post
As the title states, I looking to buy a catch can and the Mishimoto one for the SS is the one I’m leaning toward if it’ll work with the V6.
SS kit will not work. Elite Engineering sells a "kit" for the LGX, but I didn't like the fit. I do like and run their Clean Side Separator. Tracy Lewis Performance also sells a kit. I wanted something that looked clean a simple. So I went custom with a Mishimoto can.
Attached Images
 
Kairles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2020, 10:54 AM   #14
BOYD3800SII
 
Drives: 2017 RS CAMARO V6
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: MEMPHIS
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbleboy92 View Post
Don’t know if it’s relevant or not, but here’s what I got after 80k+ miles. I got it at 61k miles so who knows. Or this is completely unrelated I don’t know

https://youtu.be/VZPWgUavt64
That is probably oil shooting up back up from the variable vane oil pump. there was a technical service bulletin that GM issued and they had to replace my oil pump. You can probably get away with the costly repair unless you find tons more oil in the intake tube like that. If your service brake assist light comes on and you have funny braking then you have found your culprit. Search the TSB forums on this site.
BOYD3800SII is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.