[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Agree^^^ but I always think these BMW vs Camaro/Mustang comparisons are silly. That is Cadillac's battle and they need to deliver year after year to reach those people. Cadillac has moved up market so the question is can they ride out those years AND deliver.

High end BMW/Audi/Mercedes buyer don't want to see a striped, $25k, 4 cylinder version of thier car next to them at the light

so true.

Camaro should target legacy M3 enthusiasts(performance oriented) and caddy should go after the newer premium performance M4/3 crowd.


i think those legacy people are going for the m235 and the camaro should be an excellent alternative.

if the street oriented camaro SS (non 1LE) can hang with the M halo car, it should seal the deal for a lot of ppl in market for a m235

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Nicul15

so true.

Camaro should target legacy M3 enthusiasts(performance oriented) and caddy should go after the newer premium performance M4/3 crowd.


i think those legacy people are going for the m235 and the camaro should be an excellent alternative.

if the street oriented camaro SS (non 1LE) can hang with the M halo car, it should seal the deal for a lot of ppl in market for a m235

Good point. If Camaro takes down the big dog BMW, it could draw in the lower lever M buyers

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I've read some threads on the SS vs M3/4 and they don't care how good the Camaro is, they will keep buying an M. No matter how much the Camaro improves, their perception is the BMW is better.

Don't the Head2Heads get posted on Wednesday? Hopefully we see it next week.

Yep, they have been beat by Mercedes and Cadillac now in H2Hs, this will be a 3rd loss in track time/performance I'm sure. BMW has become complacent with their sales to previous Toyota Camary and Honda Accord owners. I seriously do no see 1 person my age or younger driving them in my area (these are regular BMWs, not Ms of course).

Originally Posted by kdu

I've actually been cross shopping the M4. Used 2015s go for about $60k. It's definitely more than the Camaro, but it's in the same ballpark. Plus, when I resell in 3-5 years I would theoretically make up some of the price difference. Having owned a BMW and a Chevy before, beyond the differences in the car you get a dramatically different service experience. Many M owners also have other BMWs so there is a ton of brand loyalty to overcome to put a camaro high on the short list of M4 alternatives. Both are great cars so hard to lose with either one.

Suddenly almost $20k difference is the same ballpark?

[94turbolsx]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I've read some threads on the SS vs M3/4 and they don't care how good the Camaro is, they will keep buying an M. No matter how much the Camaro improves, their perception is the BMW is better.

Don't the Head2Heads get posted on Wednesday? Hopefully we see it next week.

This is likely not the norm but gearheads are different bunch. I autox with the local BMW club regularly and a couple of those guys are skipping the newest m3/4 for a Camaro SS. Both have e92 versions of the M3.

[Blacksapphire]

I've been waiting for a head to head and I think this will be a great competitor. Yes it has less power but it also has less weight and pdk. Mustang and chally don't stack up to what the camaro is anymore (all around performer).

[Mr. Wyndham]

Subscribed.

In my head I do simple math...

The magazines seem thrilled with the ATS-V...And they've said that the Camaro SS is like "An ATS-V with a V8"....this should be good!

[Bhobbs]

This Head2Head will be the first lap time for the 6th gen, right? I can't think of any other reviews that ran it around a track.

[SuperSound]

I don't remember any hot laps in any of the reviews out so far.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

This Head2Head will be the first lap time for the 6th gen, right? I can't think of any other reviews that ran it around a track.

This will be the first hot laps, and it will be done on a track that a lot of big boys have been on. So this will be our first look at what the 6th gen will do. Can't wait.

[Denis]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I've read some threads on the SS vs M3/4 and they don't care how good the Camaro is, they will keep buying an M. No matter how much the Camaro improves, their perception is the BMW is better.

Don't the Head2Heads get posted on Wednesday? Hopefully we see it next week.

Every 4th Wednesday. Sadly they just had one...albeit a pretty good one. But we wont see this H2H till late next month if its slated for Feb and not March.

this is the one they just dropped yesterday...

[drivingagain]

Damn a whole month away to see this. I just want to see what the SS does around the track. Be interesting if they pick an automatic or manual for this as well. I have owned a couple BMW products and have to say yes the Sales and Service is a notch better. You pay for it dearly! I got rid of 2010 BMW 535i about 2 years ago it had 60k miles on it and a recall for a rear tail light. I knew I was selling it to an employee so I wanted it perfect. I asked the service manager how much to flush the brakes, radiator fluid, oil, transmission fluid, and rear end fluid. They wanted like $1,400! I laughed and said ok I expected it to be expensive but this is why I would never buy another BMW. Cost me $200 in oil and a half a saturday. I would have got a free ice cream sandwich and hung out with the other ripped off BMW owners there all day. No thanks, Just my thoughts.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by drivingagain

Damn a whole month away to see this. I just want to see what the SS does around the track. Be interesting if they pick an automatic or manual for this as well. I have owned a couple BMW products and have to say yes the Sales and Service is a notch better. You pay for it dearly! I got rid of 2010 BMW 535i about 2 years ago it had 60k miles on it and a recall for a rear tail light. I knew I was selling it to an employee so I wanted it perfect. I asked the service manager how much to flush the brakes, radiator fluid, oil, transmission fluid, and rear end fluid. They wanted like $1,400! I laughed and said ok I expected it to be expensive but this is why I would never buy another BMW. Cost me $200 in oil and a half a saturday. I would have got a free ice cream sandwich and hung out with the other ripped off BMW owners there all day. No thanks, Just my thoughts.

That's why you lease and turn them in before the warranty runs out! Can't imagine the service costs on a used M without warranty.

[addisonpeterson]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Agree^^^ but I always think these BMW vs Camaro/Mustang comparisons are silly. That is Cadillac's battle and they need to deliver year after year to reach those people. Cadillac has moved up market so the question is can they ride out those years AND deliver.

High end BMW/Audi/Mercedes buyer don't want to see a striped, $25k, 4 cylinder version of thier car next to them at the light

Well last I checked BMW/Audi/Mercedes all have 4 cylinder turbo equivalents to their high performance cars so the Camaro will not be alone on that end. The BMW 4 series has a 4cylinder 240hp/255lb ft tq base engine which is less hp/tq than the Camaro 4 cylinder...

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by addisonpeterson

Well last I checked BMW/Audi/Mercedes all have 4 cylinder turbo equivalents to their high performance cars so the Camaro will not be alone on that end. The BMW 4 series has a 4cylinder 240hp/255lb ft tq base engine which is less hp/tq than the Camaro 4 cylinder...

Very true. But off topic, their turbo 4s are not SAE rated. So while BMW advertises 240hp the reality is the ATS with the LTG is rated at 275hp but is not actually faster than it's 328i/428i competitor. After leasing mine I can assure you it is at least 275hp. My chipped 2.0T in my old Jetta doesn't pull as strong as my 328i does.

The Camaro with LTG will be just as good competition for BMW turbo 4s as the ATS is now, maybe even better.