[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

How many turbo systems have you personally built & tuned?

Be specific.

How many times have you ingested gasoline to be able to tell someone not to do it? I don't need to own a shop or build turbos or tune them in order to know facts about them. There is a such thing as research, learning, asking questions, and paying close attention to other real world examples. The easiest, simplest, safest, most cost efficient way to boost a car is with a supercharger. That is best for someone who is quite new to all this. Now for someone who knows a bit more, has some wrenching experience, and maybe is on a more advance setup, then a turbo might be right for him. But for a SS on stock internals there is no need to go with a turbo unless that is what the owner wants.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How many times have you ingested gasoline to be able to tell someone not to do it? I don't need to own a shop or build turbos or tune them in order to know facts about them. There is a such thing as research, learning, asking questions, and paying close attention to other real world examples. The easiest, simplest, safest, most cost efficient way to boost a car is with a supercharger. That is best for someone who is quite new to all this. Now for someone who knows a bit more, has some wrenching experience, and maybe is on a more advance setup, then a turbo might be right for him. But for a SS on stock internals there is no need to go with a turbo unless that is what the owner wants.

That’s what I thought.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

That’s what I thought.

He is right on a supercharger being the easier way to make good reliable power. Superchargers nowadays are very simple to install to the point of being able to bolt one on in a day and having an extra 200hp before you know it. Now if the op ever plans on drag racing Procharger or Turbos is the only way to go simply for the fact that you can cut a better 60ft without too much drama and they both move like freight trains on the top end.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

That’s what I thought.

Sure thing sport.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Puddin

He is right on a supercharger being the easier way to make good reliable power. Superchargers nowadays are very simple to install to the point of being able to bolt one on in a day and having an extra 200hp before you know it. Now if the op ever plans on drag racing Procharger or Turbos is the only way to go simply for the fact that you can cut a better 60ft without too much drama and they both move like freight trains on the top end.

A belt driven supercharger, as I said also, yes is easier.

An exhaust driven supercharger, which is a turbocharger (guys should get your terminology straight), is more complicated & time consuming to install.

The rest of it is not necessarily true, especially the tuning aspect, nor the dependability of the engine. In fact, a properly done turbo set-up places less stress on the crank & rotating assembly. Belt drivens take more HP to make an equivalent amount of manifold pressure, which extends power capability on a given available fuel volume.

Properly sized turbos can have a boost response curve comparative to a positive displacement blower. So your comparison there as far as streetability is unfounded. I did a twin set-up on a mustang I had where I hit 14psi at 2,800RPM & still had enough top end pull to run 11.7’s @117mph on a SBE 302.

There is also the versatility of being able to adjust the boost on the fly. That’s one of the things I love about turbos. I set up the gates on a low pressure spring & can easily turn the boost up as desired. Not near as easy on a belt driven, not even in the same galaxy.

I’m not saying OP should go the route of a turbo, that’s up to him. The problem is that when people interject false information because they have no real world experience on the matter a truly educated decision can’t be made.

[Choda]

I have experience with all 4 power adders (Nitrous is the fourth and thank you for not including it in your list of options).

It comes down to money and goals. If you know you're going to be upgrading year after year.... turbo from the start.

If you're more in the middle and want some extra hp and not all the extra work and constant dumping money. Get a top mount roots style. OEM style install.

Either power adder you go with, expect to spend more than just the initial shock factor of the item it self. Someone said tuning a turbo is harder, i don't agree with that.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Sure thing sport.

Just stop while you’re ahead.

You have no idea what you are talking about because you can’t really learn anything about the subject matter unless you’ve been there, done that. & I’ve been doing it for about 25yrs. The reason is because all the pertinent information is not readily transmissible.

An example is back around 2k I was at the track just making runs in my 86 twin stang when a younger guy comes to my pit spot & starts talking to me “Hey are you so & so?” “Yeah.” “ Hey man I saw your build on-line & I copied everything you did, but I can’t get it running right. Think you can help me out?” “Sure, I don’t have everything here but let me take a look at it.”

Long story short I had him come by the shop & I sorted some stuff out for him. The difference was he couldn’t crack the 11’s the day I met him. The next time at the track he was turning easy 11.20s.

You are that kid, actually not even that because he actually did it & you haven’t & well, I’m me.

Originally Posted by Choda

I have experience with all 4 power adders (Nitrous is the fourth and thank you for not including it in your list of options).

It comes down to money and goals. If you know you're going to be upgrading year after year.... turbo from the start.

If you're more in the middle and want some extra hp and not all the extra work and constant dumping money. Get a top mount roots style. OEM style install.

Either power adder you go with, expect to spend more than just the initial shock factor of the item it self. Someone said tuning a turbo is harder, i don't agree with that.

OP, this is a guy you can listen to!

Only thing I would say Choda, is you can have a good turbo set up & leave it alone & just be happy with it. But it’s so damn hard!

[JSH]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Take the time and do things the proper way and things will be much more cost efficient.

IMHO the proper way to begin the (LT4) modification process is to do what I did - leave the SC and TB stock (this is irrelevant for him), and start with a custom valve train with generous fuel lobe, headers, Hi-flow cats, 10% lower pulley, Roto-fab air intake (and the inevitable dyno/tune). Intake air temp. would not be an issue and these parts will work with any future larger SC.

Another important factor is whether or not he plans to do the work himself.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'd rather spend a little more money and end up with an 800+ RWHP setup on pump gas that can be turned up to quadruple RW numbers if I wanted to in the future than to try and stretch the smallest blower on the planet out to within an inch of it's life.

How are you going to quadruple 800 bhp to 3200 bhp?

[Puddin]

No I think my terminology is just fine its called a turbo and 99% of the population call them turbos not exhaust driven superchargers.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Puddin

No I think my terminology is just fine its called a turbo and 99% of the population call them turbos not exhaust driven superchargers.

You can call it a turbo, that’s fine, that’s what it’s called.

When you say “a supercharger” that includes a turbo.

I know people do it & I don’t care what 99% of what anyone does or says when it’s incorrect.

[KingLT1]

For the average car enthusiast looking for more power a Positive Displacement supercharger is imo the best option. The newer PD stuff is very efficient and reliable these days...they make power everywhere so it's a noticeable difference through the entire curve. Manifold air temps(what ECU references to retard spark advance based on air temp) is normally not a issue with the larger PD options for our cars. I have yet to have the ECU pull timing from heat with my Whipple 2.9.

That being said, If you are on the more extreme side and plan on going with a full build, then a Turbo system is a great option. It is more complex and it will likely require more effort to dial in(especially on the 6th gen platform), but they make they make they most power per lb of boost since they do not suffer from parasitic pumping loss.

In the end all 3 have been proven to make great power. Currently the fastest 6th gen is powered by a TVS 2650, followed by 3 F1a-94 procharged setups. Turbo currently resides in 4th position but I don't expect it to stay that way.

[Wobble Goat]

Why are people jumping in here and giving advice on their idea of "upgrading" the LT4 aka ZL1 when OP clearly stated he has a LT1 aka the SS?

Anyways, "cost effective", don't do anything, enjoy the car.

You are about to spend $6k-$9k to make that extra 150 rwhp.

Since you are new to this and don't wrench yourself, I wouldn't look for a used LT4 blower and Frankenstein the parts together to get it to work, that would be the cheapest route.

Magnuson 2300 or equivalent in the price range. Kits will cost around $7k, figure another $1k for install + tune. + I would spend another $1k+ on a interchiller so you never have to worry about heat soak and high iats. (Internal Air Temperature) And if you ever want to make more power you're going to have to spend money on upgrading your fuel system... then buy the bigger 2650... then blow the LT1 and get an engine from Texas Speed...

But again, I'm a keyboard warrior, what do I know? I'm trying to buy a house before any forced induction.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

Just stop while you’re ahead.

You have no idea what you are talking about because you can’t really learn anything about the subject matter unless you’ve been there, done that. & I’ve been doing it for about 25yrs. The reason is because all the pertinent information is not readily transmissible.

An example is back around 2k I was at the track just making runs in my 86 twin stang when a younger guy comes to my pit spot & starts talking to me “Hey are you so & so?” “Yeah.” “ Hey man I saw your build on-line & I copied everything you did, but I can’t get it running right. Think you can help me out?” “Sure, I don’t have everything here but let me take a look at it.”

Long story short I had him come by the shop & I sorted some stuff out for him. The difference was he couldn’t crack the 11’s the day I met him. The next time at the track he was turning easy 11.20s.

You are that kid, actually not even that because he actually did it & you haven’t & well, I’m me.

What the Hell are you talking about? I couldn't care less about your 25 years doing whatever or what you and some kid ran at the track. OP asked a simple question and there is a simple answer. Between the power adders, without a doubt, a supercharger will be the best, easiest, most cost friendly, most user friendly, easiest to tune, easiest to troubleshoot, have the best support, and most upgradeable hands down. There is a reason why there are an effing hell of a lot more of us out here with superchargers than with TURBOS. And there is a reason why vendors sell superchargers probably 5 to 1 over TURBOS if not more than that. heck there used to be a time when turbo systems had to be built upon order because nobody bought them. In fact, there were several companies that actually had to custom make your turbo kit meaning you had to drop your car off there and they actually had to build it specifically for your car and that was because nobody bought them. Any company that made them ahead of time probably had those boxes sitting and collecting dust for years. A turbo on a stock bottom end car is nothing more than a cool looking way to spend more money, have the same HP, possibly blow your engine to kingdom come, have a lot more technical issues, and way more individual part failures. But hey, for all the headache at least you'll be the only one at the meet who can say you have a turbo. Probably because everyone else was smart enough to just get a supercharger. But hey, bragging rights.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

You can call it a turbo, that’s fine, that’s what it’s called.

When you say “a supercharger” that includes a turbo.

I know people do it & I don’t care what 99% of what anyone does or says when it’s incorrect.

25 years of experience and all you can recite is the most basic information that everyone already knows. Wow.