[travislambert]

Originally Posted by FollowMyLine

Thanks, we have been updating these to reflect fastest time, regardless of tire used. It gets to convoluted with multiple post of the same person/same car/different tire. The only exception here is leaving up the difference in times between Turbo 4, V6, SS, ZL1, etc. For example, if you end up buying a ZL1 1LE and running at the same track, I will leave up your ZL1 time since it is a reference for others with a ZL1.

I can certainly appreciate what you're saying. I suppose that policy must have changed at some point since I do have multiple times already posted for a ZL1 at PittRace, one being stock and the other being modified.

It's going to get convoluted regardless. I'd also argue that a tire can and often does make more difference than ZL1 vs ZL1 1LE or SS vs SS 1LE. Most modifications people list make very little, if any, lap time difference. Tires are a huge factor though. There's a lot of value in seeing differences in lap time per tire with all things equal due to classing differences at times events. Or, perhaps someone might just want to see the best lap time achieved on a particular tire at a given track.

I don't know. Lots to consider. I'm thinking there is value in keeping multiple times when the tires are different if the list is to serve as a point of reference. If it's just for bragging rights, then maybe a 1 entry per person per track makes sense. Just my 2 cents.

I now actually own a 23 ZL1 1LE and I have an 23 SS 1LE on the way. I'll be starting to track these other cars soon. I suppose we'll see what works out going forward.

[khcoaching]

Totally get the different tires deal, but building the list off of that would make it super hard to compile and keep track of. (I just set a PB on the Toyo RRs this week, but it is still 1.6 sec of my 3R times, so no post)

@travislambert Can't wait to see your new builds!

Ken

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by khcoaching

Totally get the different tires deal, but building the list off of that would make it super hard to compile and keep track of. (I just set a PB on the Toyo RRs this week, but it is still 1.6 sec of my 3R times, so no post)

@travislambert Can't wait to see your new builds!

Ken

I suppose in my mind, the list is either based on the person or the car. If it's the car, then it makes sense to allow multiple listings with different tires because a tires is one of the biggest factors for lap times. In many cases, it's a bigger factor than the car itself, which is why allowing different vehilce trims but not different tires to have unique listings is strange.

Using my last post as an example, it seems odd to have a rule that precludes a 1:50 lap on supercar 3s from being posted yet a person could post a 2:30 lap which doesn't add much value to the list and that would be posted right away. There's just something off with that.

If the burden of list maintenance is the issue, then maybe limiting each track to the top 10 fast times or something would solve that. The lists would settle and maintenance wouldn't be a burden at all, yet the lists could still provide really good reference laps for someone looking to learn the track or possibly choose their next set of tires. If the same person can occupy all 10 spots with unique configurations, then so be it. Or if the list is meant to be based around the person, then make it one entry per person.

When my other cars get track ready, I'm pretty sure each car will occupy a spot at the top of the PittRace list. When that happens, I bet someone proposes a rule change to prevent that scenario too. That's my original point. It's either based on the person or the car. When you choose car, it gets complicated. Model and trim are not enough to make it meaningful. That's why every time trial organizer has complex car classing rules based on much more than model and trim.

[5.M0NSTER]

Track= Grattan Raceway
Elapsed Time = 1:26.64
Year / Model / Trim = 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Date = 9/03/2022
Tires = Goodyear Eagle F1 (factory)
Mods = DTC60 pads and SRF brake Fluid

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Track= Grattan Raceway
Elapsed Time = 1:26.64
Year / Model / Trim = 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Date = 9/03/2022
Tires = Goodyear Eagle F1 (factory)
Mods = DTC60 pads and SRF brake Fluid

Nice Grattan run... I cannot STAND the patches there. Sounds like understeer lol

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

Nice Grattan run... I cannot STAND the patches there. Sounds like understeer lol

Thanks! The squeal on street tires is ridiculous. But the sealer has good grip. Doesn't make much noise with slick tires, but I don't have a trailer.

[5.M0NSTER]

And a picture to go along with the lap time. I guess jumping the "jump" is inevitable at speed.

[MechanicalEng]

Track= Pocono International Raceway N/S Option 2 (2.26 Miles)
Elapsed Time = 1:41.22
Year / Model / Trim = 2022 Camaro SS 1LE 6sp manual
Date = 8/15/2022
Tires = OEM wheels and tires (Goodyear)
Mods = GM track alignment and DTC60 pads and SRF brake Fluid

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

And a picture to go along with the lap time. I guess jumping the "jump" is inevitable at speed.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by khcoaching

Totally get the different tires deal, but building the list off of that would make it super hard to compile and keep track of. (I just set a PB on the Toyo RRs this week, but it is still 1.6 sec of my 3R times, so no post)

@travislambert Can't wait to see your new builds!

Ken

Originally Posted by travislambert

I suppose in my mind, the list is either based on the person on the car. If it's the car, then it makes sense to allow multiple listings with different tires because a tires is one of the biggest factors for lap times. In many cases, it's a bigger factor than the car itself, which is why allowing different vehilce trims but not different tires to have unique listings is strange.

Using my last post as an example, it seems odd to have a rule that precludes a 1:50 lap on supercar 3s from being posted yet a person could post a 2:30 lap which doesn't add much value to the list and that would be posted right away. There's just something off with that.

If the burden of list maintenance is the issue, then maybe limiting each track to the top 10 fast times or something would solve that. The lists would settle and maintenance wouldn't be a burden at all, yet the lists could still provide really good reference laps for someone looking to learn the track or possibly choose their next set of tires. If the same person can occupy all 10 spots with unique configurations, then so be it. Or if the list is meant to be based around the person, then make it one entry per person.

When my other cars get track ready, I'm pretty sure each car will occupy a spot at the top of the PittRace list. When that happens, I bet someone proposes a rule change to prevent that scenario too. That's my original point. It's either based on the person or the car. When you choose car, it gets complicated. Model and trim are not enough to make it meaningful. That's why every time trial organizer has complex car classing rules based on much more than model and trim.

I am mostly in agreement with Travis here. We should at least have 200TW+ street tire times and sub 200TW R compound times. Tires are absolutely the biggest mod for time improvement.

Provoste agreed with this approach, just look at his 2 Watkins Glen Times.
Hell that was same day same car different tires! There may be other cases of this too. You clearly just deleted Travis's previous SC3 time from the list.

[FollowMyLine]

For clarity, I didn’t just delete Travis’ multiple entries, I went through and did a quick scrub of several multiple entries. I may have missed some, but there weren’t many.

I like some of the ideas here. I am open to suggestions. I like the idea of top-10 lists as well. I will add and update some of the times that I haven’t yet, but lately have been slammed.

I just wanted to make sure there was no misconception. I have no ill-will towards Travis and didn’t isolate him only. He has great points.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by FollowMyLine

For clarity, I didn’t just delete Travis’ multiple entries, I went through and did a quick scrub of several multiple entries. I may have missed some, but there weren’t many.

I like some of the ideas here. I am open to suggestions. I like the idea of top-10 lists as well. I will add and update some of the times that I haven’t yet, but lately have been slammed.

I just wanted to make sure there was no misconception. I have no ill-will towards Travis and didn’t isolate him only. He has great points.

I think it's a simple, fair way you're handling it. Mod comments cover the difference in tires, engine mods, brakes, etc. I like that this way provides a direct comparison to others running similar setup. Keep up the good work and we appreciate the effort.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by FollowMyLine

For clarity, I didn’t just delete Travis’ multiple entries, I went through and did a quick scrub of several multiple entries. I may have missed some, but there weren’t many.

I like some of the ideas here. I am open to suggestions. I like the idea of top-10 lists as well. I will add and update some of the times that I haven’t yet, but lately have been slammed.

I just wanted to make sure there was no misconception. I have no ill-will towards Travis and didn’t isolate him only. He has great points.

In my opinion, deleting entries from the list without well-defined rules is probably not the best approach. While I certainly appreciate and respect what you do to maintain this thread, we all share and contribute to this forum to make it work. If you're going to do anything other than add entries that forum members would like posted then there is a risk of sucking any and all fun from this thread. Inevitably, there will be a disagreement on what should or shouldn't be allowed.

If we are adding rules about multiple entries for the same track and driver, I'd suggest adding them near the top of the first post. At the moment, I feel the rules are a bit unclear, arbitrary, and inconsistent with the original intent. According to the first post, "This thread is intended to be fun, informational & educational". Choosing to not add entries members would like posted and deleting previously approved entries seems to directly contradict the "informational & educational" part.

If there is a need for fewer entries, let's at least do it in a way that makes sense. I previously mentioned limiting each track configuration to 10 entries, but even that has the downside of every entry eventually being occupied with modified cars. Requiring a lap video might be a good start if the purpose is indeed to be informational and educational. I think Jason's suggestion of allowing otherwise duplicate entries for both sub-200 TW and 200+ TW also makes sense. To be honest though, I don't understand the need to limit it at all. It has worked the way it is for years with very few issues.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I think it's a simple, fair way you're handling it. Mod comments cover the difference in tires, engine mods, brakes, etc. I like that this way provides a direct comparison to others running similar setup. Keep up the good work and we appreciate the effort.

Agree and the thought of limiting this to a top ten is not a good idea for the masses. The list is a great source for comparison between the different drivers/cars/tracks/mods...etc. It would be a shame to lose this. Maybe some of the folks here that would like to change the current process should volunteer to assist with the upkeep of the data.