[FarmerFran]

No reasonable car person buys a Mach1 over ZL1 let alone a ZLE

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

BTW the ZL1 "brake pad upgrade" is not an upgrade perse, it's a reduced copper content pad so the car can be ordered and sold to CA and WA. So that's only necessary if someone resides in one of those states.

I thought the same, but recently found out that the SS1LE copper free brakes are upgraded to the CT5-V Blackwing brakes and not the ZL1 brakes. The CT5-V BW brakes are slightly larger (398mm) in the front than the ZL1 brakes (390mm), so I would bet the copper free option on the ZL1s gets the CT5-V BW brakes as well.

[5.M0NSTER]

Not exactly on point, but the Mach 1 is often compared against the GT350R.

Here is a short video from yesterday. GT350R vs SS 1LE. Very cold day, 35F or so, but did not matter on the straight. I'm quite happy with how the 1LE did head to head on the back straight of Grattan Raceway. With over 60hp more, and carbon wheels, I was expecting the R to pull away more so than it did here. Either way, enjoy.

[BlaqWhole]

Was the R stock? What's up with that wing?

[ST1LE]

The Mach 1 is a really nice car. Definitely had me interested in buying one. I am no Mustang fan boi, or too in to the history and heritage so the price tag made it a non-starter for me.

Not every purchase is about comparing to the competition, but I dont think there is a world where I wouldn't have buyer's remorse paying so much for what is basically a Mustang GT when a ZL1 is within spitting distance price-wise.

Mach 1 is an awesome car though, no doubt! Hope to see one in person eventually.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by STReddy1999

I'm sure this has been talked about before but I couldn't find a thread with Mach 1 in the title besides one where the author was asking if the Mach 1 will be a hybrid. The configurator for the Mach 1 has been on Ford's website for a little bit now so I decided to compare the SS 1LE with the Mach 1 in terms of options and pricing. My goal was to build two cars that had similar features and see what the price difference was.

2021 Camaro SS: $50,295
-2SS Coupe
-6-speed Manual
-1LE Track Performance Package
-PDR

2021 Mustang Mach 1: $59,010
-Mach 1 Premium
-6-speed Manual
-Mach 1 Handling Package

Important to note is the Mach 1 Handling Package is $3,500. I felt that was necessary because the stock tires are 275 rear and 255 front, this package gives it 315 rear and 305 front. I felt that was fair, but if you don't think so just take $3,500 off the Mach 1. Doesn't matter anyways, though, because the Mach 1 is $8,715 more. So for the price comparison, I think the Camaro wins handily.

Price comparison out of the way, the features for both cars are relatively identical. I put the PDR on the Camaro just because (the price difference is $10,015 if I remove it), I don't see anything in the Mach 1's description to suggest it has such a feature except it says it has "Track Apps". I haven't seen a direct comparison between the two yet, but I'd imagine the Mach 1 will have slightly better max lateral G because of the increased track width front and rear and the Cup 2 tires. Ultimately, I think the Mach 1 still loses around a track to the SS 1LE because of the weight, and the chassis it sits on is inferior to the Alpha. Thoughts?

The 1LE is the better value. They are both overall close in performance. The stang has a more livable interior that is easier to see out of. The coyote makes big power easier but why not just buy a GT if straight-line performance is the priority?
Are you actually going to track the car?
I think it really all boils down to - Do you want to live with and drive a Mustang or a Camaro?

BTW - the Mach 1 is no GT350, not even close.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Was the R stock? What's up with that wing?

I haven't had a chance to look under the hood of the 350R, but he did have an adjustable wing, and was running on Hoosier slicks. The temperatures did nothing to help the slicks, but I thought it was a pretty good heads up chase on a main straight.

[BlaqWhole]

Ford has too many vehicles on PP2 level. IMO, they should have kept both versions of both Shelbys (GT350, GT350R, Base GT500, GT500 CF). The Mach1 should have been a dumbed down version which kinda follows the roots of the New Edge Mach1 as they were basically a non-Termi Cobra but with a solid axle. With everything at their disposal the Mach1 could have been along the lines of a supercharged Roush. Upgraded suspension/brakes/tires with a blower on top pushing around 630 RWHP, However I think Ford probably thought it would deter from the GT500. But as it is we now have PP2, Bullitt, Mach1, and GT350 all pretty much in close range to the point that it doesn't even make sense.

[DaveC113]

I think Ford got tired of replacing GT350 drivetrains. I bet that's the biggest reason they are no longer in production.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ford has too many vehicles on PP2 level. IMO, they should have kept both versions of both Shelbys (GT350, GT350R, Base GT500, GT500 CF). The Mach1 should have been a dumbed down version which kinda follows the roots of the New Edge Mach1 as they were basically a non-Termi Cobra but with a solid axle. With everything at their disposal the Mach1 could have been along the lines of a supercharged Roush. Upgraded suspension/brakes/tires with a blower on top pushing around 630 RWHP, However I think Ford probably thought it would deter from the GT500. But as it is we now have PP2, Bullitt, Mach1, and GT350 all pretty much in close range to the point that it doesn't even make sense.

Well, they have stopped selling GT350 and PP2, and Bullitt is actually closer to a PP1. So basically, if you want PP2 performance brand new, then you would have to pick up a Mach 1.

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I think Ford got tired of replacing GT350 drivetrains. I bet that's the biggest reason they are no longer in production.

That, and it would eat into Mach 1's sales.

Reverse engineering Ferrari only gets you so far... One thing I also noted about Voodoo is that it has a pretty high stroke:bore ratio for an engine that revs that high. If you look at Porsche GT4, C8 Z06 or BMW E9x M3 engines, they usually have a ratio of 0.8. That's pretty standard. GT350? It's pretty close to 1, which might also have contributed to the crappy reliability and longevity. Just a thought based on basic engine design theories.

[Tayley1LE]

As a owner of both there are pro and cons with both. This is a Camaro forum so I won't waist anyones time on what I prefer on the Mach. What stands out with the Camaro is the alpha chassis and the torque of the 6.2. I did own a SS 1LE before the ZLE and both in the alpha are track weapons for the money. And anyone that has driven a coyote knows they have what feels like zero torque below 3000 and maybe 4000 rpm. You gotta let them rev. And rev they do.

Looks are subjective but I prefer the rear of the Mach and the front of the ZLE. I have the HP on my Mach and both look aggresive.

[ST1LE]

Great looking cars you have there! I agree with you on the rear ends, the Mustang looks a little better.

[m6-lt1]

Here’s my issue with the Mach 1 (aside from the price) full disclosure I grew up a huge mustang fan and I still love them but I prefer the 6th gen camaro over the 6th gen mustang hence why I own a camaro instead.

I feel like this mustang isn’t “special” enough like the last Mach 1 was. I get that it has better aero, wheels, tires, and transmission but when it comes to these types of cars, let’s be real the majority of people care more about the engine than it’s road course ability. By the way I actually road course my car so I’m not biased towards straight line performance, I’m just calling it as it is. All the Mach 1 engine is, is a coyote with a mild intake manifold upgrade. To me this doesn’t cut it. Especially when compared to the previous Mach 1.

The previous Mach 1 had better shocks, struts, brakes, axels, gearing AND a SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded engine when compared to the GT. The GT at that time made 260 hp. The Mach 1 made about 335 hp (ford underrated them). The straight line performance was significantly better than the GT sold below it. With this Mach 1, it’s basically the same.

If I was Ford here is what I would have done to make the engine more special and the car overall faster.

1) 5.2 block with cross plane crank (standard internals, not gt500 internals)
2) gt350 heads. These are the best flowing coyote style heads for an NA application.
3) Cobra jet manifold (this is their manifold king) with cobra jet intake and throttle body.

I would bet this car would be over 500+ crank HP NA which imo is the sweet spot for a street car. Having said all that I probably still wouldn’t buy it because it’s zl1 money but if I were a camaro hater, I would buy this over the gt350 so I can avoid the torque less and unreliable FPC nonsense.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Here’s my issue with the Mach 1 (aside from the price) full disclosure I grew up a huge mustang fan and I still love them but I prefer the 6th gen camaro over the 6th gen mustang hence why I own a camaro instead.

I feel like this mustang isn’t “special” enough like the last Mach 1 was. I get that it has better aero, wheels, tires, and transmission but when it comes to these types of cars, let’s be real the majority of people care more about the engine than it’s road course ability. By the way I actually road course my car so I’m not biased towards straight line performance, I’m just calling it as it is. All the Mach 1 engine is, is a coyote with a mild intake manifold upgrade. To me this doesn’t cut it. Especially when compared to the previous Mach 1.

The previous Mach 1 had better shocks, struts, brakes, axels, gearing AND a SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded engine when compared to the GT. The GT at that time made 260 hp. The Mach 1 made about 335 hp (ford underrated them). The straight line performance was significantly better than the GT sold below it. With this Mach 1, it’s basically the same.

If I was Ford here is what I would have done to make the engine more special and the car overall faster.

1) 5.2 block with cross plane crank (standard internals, not gt500 internals)
2) gt350 heads. These are the best flowing coyote style heads for an NA application.
3) Cobra jet manifold (this is their manifold king) with cobra jet intake and throttle body.

I would bet this car would be over 500+ crank HP NA which imo is the sweet spot for a street car. Having said all that I probably still wouldn’t buy it because it’s zl1 money but if I were a camaro hater, I would buy this over the gt350 so I can avoid the torque less and unreliable FPC nonsense.

Honestly, if they wanted to make a real notable splash in the pond a make Mach 1 unique, they could have used the 3.5EB from the FGT but detuned to a nice 550hp/500tq. You'd get not only more power, but low end torque, that at about 2k rpm would already exceed the 5.0's peak numbers, and carry it through for another 4k rpm.

Of course you'll always have those "but... muh, vee-aight" types, but I imagine it would sell better than most of them would like to admit. And those that would be "alienated" at this would still have the GT, with it's Coyote, which in your own words is "basically the same" as what's in the Mach1 now. Or they could step up to GT500 if they are the type to NEED a hi-po V8.