[cal45]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

oh...and why would Dodge advertise LESS HP if they are actually MORE???

We all know that 90% of the hellcat's marketing is the 707HP because everyone's jaws drop when they hear that...AND Dodge's own marketing says "707HP end of discussion"...

so if they were 740HP I would bet my life's savings they would instead say "740HP end of discussion".

Edit...yeah, what Gretchen said.

I give up....whatever it is it is.... , not that important to keep going back n forth here....I'm not loosing sleep over it.

You want someone to continue the argument? Dare ya to bring it up over on the Hellcat.org forum and those guys will have a fight to death over it being more than 707hp.

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[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I can see where the logic would be that if the HC made anything MORE than 707, why wouldn't Dodge say what it is? But...

Let's say the motor actually does make 740-ish - GM or Ford comes in all cocked and locked with a ~720 HP pony car only to find out that the HC still can wax the offering with 'only' 707 HP? Makes for some good press and a little embarrassment to the GM/Blue Oval bunch IF this were the case.

Granted, this is a HUGE stretch to consider (and most likely not true) but the numbers say there is one of two things - either the HC makes a lot more than 707 HP (and to move that much mass at those ETs I'm guessing this is the case) OR, there is far less parasitic loss in the drivetrain.

Maybe CAFE restrictions, EPA restrictions, etc get tighter the higher the HP? Could be any number of reasons Dodge would underrate the HC...

Good discussion either way!

One problem...anyone can buy and dyno a Hellcat. So how would GM or Ford not know how much it makes? Better yet you don't think they are benchmarking their next cars against it? You can't hide performance.

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[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by cal45

I give up....whatever it is it is.... , not that important to keep going back n forth here....I'm not loosing sleep over it.

You want someone to continue the argument? Dare ya to bring it up over on the Hellcat.org forum and those guys will have a fight to death over it being more than 707hp.

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And what do you think has been going on here, the C7 boards, the GT and GT350 forums....not to mention the caddy ones too. All have people claiming more power based on chassis dyno numbers. Seems far fetched to belive only the Hellcat makes more power. Hell the 392 guys claim the same thing. In the end it doesn't matter because the car's performance has been measured. HP figures are for bragging rights at best and an inaccurate measure of performance at worst.

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[cal45]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

And what do you think has been going on here, the C7 boards, the GT and GT350 forums....not to mention the caddy ones too. All have people claiming more power based on chassis dyno numbers. Seems far fetched to belive only the Hellcat makes more power. Hell the 392 guys claim the same thing. In the end it doesn't matter because the car's performance has been measured. HP figures are for bragging rights at best and an inaccurate measure of performance at worst.

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Yep, agree - it does happen across all makes/models.

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[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by cal45

I give up....whatever it is it is.... , not that important to keep going back n forth here....I'm not loosing sleep over it.

You want someone to continue the argument? Dare ya to bring it up over on the Hellcat.org forum and those guys will have a fight to death over it being more than 707hp.

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I didn't know you and I were in any argument, thought I'd just put my .02 cents in.

I don't care if the HC had 1000HP, the car doesn't do anything for me.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Battlezone580

About a year ago I made a thread my Dad got a Hellcat after I got my ZL1, both manual.

His car is bone stock, I have a CAI intake, pulley, and tune and keep up with him. Depending on who has the better launch really factors in to who wins. Assuming I'm making 650 at the crank with 200 extra pounds than the new ZL1, it should be able to easily pull on the hellcat.


The Hellcat is a vicious car, a true muscle car heavy and fast as hell (literally). No need to bash it because you can't beat it.

If you are making 650 at the crank then you should be losing. Nothing special or over 707 hp about that. The new zl1 will be a drivers race at 200 lbs less than you if both on a tire.
With your weight and hp why would you think you should easily win?

This subject is tiring. It's not the 60s and they aren't under rated. Most people just don't get it but whatever. Take a chassis dyno with 100 variables over a 3rd party witnessed SAE certified engine dyno. Sounds logical.

The hellcat isn't he only car showing good numbers. Drivetrain loss is a damn guess. I just don't get the constant fascination and lack of understanding on this subject.

[cal45]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I didn't know you and I were in any argument, thought I'd just put my .02 cents in.

I don't care if the HC had 1000HP, the car doesn't do anything for me.

LOL - we're good, my comment was generally directed to all that were active in this discussion.

I actually like the Hellcat and can't wait to see what Ford brings to the table for the next GT500. Growing up in the 1st muscle car era (my very 1st car was a '64 GTO that I bought at age 16 in '74), I like the seeing the second coming and now being older/old enough to afford 'em - but sadly, only just 1 at a time.

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[Battlezone580]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

If you are making 650 at the crank then you should be losing. Nothing special or over 707 hp about that. The new zl1 will be a drivers race at 200 lbs less than you if both on a tire.
With your weight and hp why would you think you should easily win?

This subject is tiring. It's not the 60s and they aren't under rated. Most people just don't get it but whatever. Take a chassis dyno with 100 variables over a 3rd party witnessed SAE certified engine dyno. Sounds logical.

The hellcat isn't he only car showing good numbers. Drivetrain loss is a damn guess. I just don't get the constant fascination and lack of understanding on this subject.

Why should I be losing? The Hellcat weights over 300 pounds more, and the stock tires are a joke! I believe 285 in the rear? I have Nitto G2 315s on my ZL1, so I can hook way better than the Hellcat. Theres more to a car than just pure hp... Also the ZL1 comes with a no-lift feature shift so I'm losing boost in between shifts, the Hellcat does not so between every shift he's losing boosts. And finally lets not forgot t the skill of the driver...

[tones2SS]

I'm pretty sure this engine is producing around 825 HP.Yeah,....it's in this video. At the 7:00 minute mark.
But, it is really impressive if you want to watch the whole video of the engineer talking about the Hellcat engine. These cars run a variable pressure pump for the fuel too. Great video.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Battlezone580

Why should I be losing? The Hellcat weights over 300 pounds more, and the stock tires are a joke! I believe 285 in the rear? I have Nitto G2 315s on my ZL1, so I can hook way better than the Hellcat. Theres more to a car than just pure hp... Also the ZL1 comes with a no-lift feature shift so I'm losing boost in between shifts, the Hellcat does not so between every shift he's losing boosts. And finally lets not forgot t the skill of the driver...

You were the one surprised he could run with you with your mods. I'm not.

Taking variables out of the equation his car should still be faster with 707 hp. It doesn't mean it's under rated. 60 extra hp he has(using your 650 figure) makes up for 300 lbs no problem. If it were 750 he would be eating you alive. With traction of course.

10 hp makes up for roughly 100 lbs.

But yes I agree lots of variables. I stated a few posts ago the new zl1 will probably handle the cat. With a DR I'm guessing drivers race.

Not dissing you or your car. I just strictly disagree with all the under rating talk.

[rcandiloro]

What I just don't get with the Hellcat is why Dodge decided to put skinny 275 tires on all four corners? With a monster motor like that you need to have some serious rubber. They put fat 355 tires on the Viper, the Z06 has 335 rubber.......if they widened the rear end just a bit (similar to Z06 vs Stingray) and put 335+ tires out back I think the Hellcat would be the most awesome car on the street. My humble opinion.....

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by rcandiloro

What I just don't get with the Hellcat is why Dodge decided to put skinny 275 tires on all four corners? With a monster motor like that you need to have some serious rubber. They put fat 355 tires on the Viper, the Z06 has 335 rubber.......if they widened the rear end just a bit (similar to Z06 vs Stingray) and put 335+ tires out back I think the Hellcat would be the most awesome car on the street. My humble opinion.....

probably because it already weighed 4500lbs, and they knew most would take it to the drag strip and throw on DR's anyway.

[Jeffro19]

It will be interesting to see what dodge does with the 2017 hellcat if anything to compete with the 2017 ZL1. They may do nothing or tweak a few things.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

It will be interesting to see what dodge does with the 2017 hellcat if anything to compete with the 2017 ZL1. They may do nothing or tweak a few things.

They had the most powerful, most extreme pony car ever built that wasn't known for it's road course prowess. Sounds like they don't have to do much of anything.