[Realist]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Until businesses give their execs high fives, golden parachutes, big bonuses, etc for sending a company through bankruptcy, mismanaging businesses, etc than don't cry to me about how unions don't know how to sacrifice and they need to be broken up.



You can't expect labor to sacrifice when the top are still getting raises due to the sacrifices labor made. American Airlines still comes to mind. The company told the unions that they needed to accept these cuts or it would mean bankruptcy back in 2003 or so. The unions accepted the cuts and the execs got big fat bonuses for it. You can bet that went over well with the unions. They take the cuts because they were told without them, the company would go into bankruptcy due to their financial situation, but see management get a huge pay day for getting the unions to take those cuts. So don't give me unions don't sacrifice things or are not needed today BS. Businesses will screw you over whenever they can.

Another terrible example as American did file for bankruptcy in 2011 after 4 year of losses. When you have a workforce that isn’t flexible due to economic changes mixed with Wall Street expectations it’s a recipe for disaster over time.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Realist

Another terrible example as American did file for bankruptcy in 2011 after 4 year of losses. When you have a workforce that isn’t flexible due to economic changes mixed with Wall Street expectations it’s a recipe for disaster over time.

Well geez.... Would you want to be flexible after the screw job American did to them in 2003? That short term decision in 2003 cost them long term good will. Good management-labor relations goes a long way and American pissed on it.



I always find it funny when people try to blame labor for bankruptcies when it all comes down to mismanagement. The UAW didn't cause GM to file Chapter 11, 20 years of poor quality cars and mismanagement caused GM to file bankruptcy..... Even though the UAW did sign a concessionary contract in 2007 giving up a lot of perks to help GM stay afloat. Still get the blame for being "inflexible".

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Top business execs live like kings on the backs of their employees. Top union execs live like kings on the backs of their members. No difference.

True. I am not going to say I am completely happy with my union top guys, but I am still glad they are there representing me. There are programs that wouldn't exist without them that isn't costing the company money as my dues go to it.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

I always find it funny when people try to blame labor for bankruptcies when it all comes down to mismanagement. The UAW didn't cause GM to file Chapter 11, 20 years of poor quality cars and mismanagement caused GM to file bankruptcy..... Even though the UAW did sign a concessionary contract in 2007 giving up a lot of perks to help GM stay afloat. Still get the blame for being "inflexible".


True. I am not going to say I am completely happy with my union top guys, but I am still glad they are there representing me. There are programs that wouldn't exist without them that isn't costing the company money as my dues go to it.

I always find it funny when a union workforce isn’t willing to share some of the blame. They don’t want to compete for work here. You are pro union and I’m anti union. It’s ok we can just agree to disagree.

[90503]

Unfortunately for union auto workers in the US, their jobs can be replaced by cheap/cheaper labor outside the US. That is not the case for many other unions like police, teachers, civil servants, etc. Those jobs cannot be under-cut with deals between US companies, foreign governments, and a powerless, desperate, poverty level labor pool like GM is doing with Mexico.

A union like UAW is one of the few barriers that keep some non-union jobs in the US at a decent level. Union the problem making cars here? Look at the inevitable outcome if their were no unions here at all. We would be at the mercy of companies choosing to pay whatever the so-called competition calls for...Only the US pays it's autoworkers a non poverty level wage and offers employment that can enable a decent standard of living for an American family. This should be a priority for all US citizens. And we have the ability to make sure of this buy using our car purchasing dollars in US workers favor.


You can find all the fault you want with US unions and company management salaries, etc....The bottom line is who gets the jobs. The US, Mexico, or China? You can send a message to GM that customers in the US want the cars and trucks they buy made in the US. You want those jobs for your neighbors, either across the street, or your neighbors in another state.

The Blazer could have been built in the US. Silverado trucks that are GMs bread and butter, should all be made in the US where they are all sold.


Boycott the Mexican Blazer, and make sure you buy a Silverado or GMC Sierra with a VIN starting with the number 1 only. Bring these products all back to the US before it's too late.

GM easily makes decisions to lay-off US workers when they shouldn't have to. US workers deserve the jobs to assemble vehicles that are sold here.

[Realist]

Yep build them here Union or non-union just build them here.

[90503]

Country of Origin Character Codes

The 1st character in a car's vehicle identification number indicates the country in which it was manufactured.

Some of the country codes include:

1, 4, 5: United States

2: Canada

3A-37: Mexico

J: Japan
VF-VR: France
9: Brazil
WA-W0: West Germany
S: Great Britain


https://chevyblazerboycott.com/

[lightsOUT]

Originally Posted by Realist

Yep build them here Union or non-union just build them here.

Hey! Something we agree on! Sort of.... haha

[mlee]

I'm going to the Auto Show tomorrow or Thursday and check it out 1st hand. Trying to talk the wife into one for her.

[DenverTaco07]

couple of thoughts:

1. I get it that we (I include myself) don't like the fact that it is made in Mexico. However, at the end of the day GM is more profitable and sustainable long term, doesn't that help keep them in business and able to employ Americans? And if the choice is be less profitable to meet the principle of "build it here", and possibly go out of business due to bad decision making, like being too principled vs. too profitable, or build some cars here, some cars "there" and they stay sustainable into the future then...???

2. Regarding treatment of employees and why Unions form. I'll use Costco as an example. I've been going to the same Costco for over 10 years now, I'm there every week. The same woman that corrals the carts out of the lot has been there, over 10 years. Larry, the guy that stands at the door, there for over 10 years. Marvella (now just retired), same, checking people in and out at the door for 10 years. And there are about 3 or 4 others that I know have been there doing the same work for 10+ years, and we are not talking about skilled labor here. My point is...Costco gets it, they know how to attract and retain talent by treating them right, good pay and benefits etc. The CEO didn't get paid hundreds of millions, his base pay was about 1 million a couple of years ago and then 5 mil in stock options, so as CEO pay goes, quite low. So...I'd suggest that for those who are blanket scorched earth all Unions are evil, I'd simply say that perhaps your anger is misdirected, had the company simply treated employees right to begin with, no need for a Union. I realize that may also be overly simplified statement, I'm sure there are Unions that didn't grow organically due to poor treatment as well. I'm sure both company and union can use a little reality check.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

When you've got 180,000 employees like GM does, what the CEO makes doesn't count for much. Have Mary Barra work for free and divide her salary equally among all GM employees, and everyone gets an extra couple hundred bucks or so each year - enough to pay for your Amazon Prime subscription each year, but that's about it.

Like it or not, a far bigger problem is what union members are paid today - having bludgeoned automakers into concession after concession for decades with proposed or actual strikes or the bad optics of "CEO earns millions while hard-working blue collar worker gets next to nothing!" bad press.

I've dealt with UAW in aerospace, and not only do they seem to be the most territorial jerks on the planet in defending against anyone else performing work they're assigned to no matter how trivial, but they get paid comparatively princely money for the simplest tasks. I've met factory workers whose annual pay to exclusively install landing gear to an aircraft (torque down a couple of bolts and connect some fluid lines, torque stripe, done) as I was paid to engineer the landing gear in the first place - and that was just one project I worked on. I'd imagine much the same at GM and the guys who put wheels on cars, a skill most American male kids learn to do competently enough when they start driving.

That's just not sustainable. You don't have to pay American factory workers "poverty wages" to regain some profitability ($40k vs $80k is still a pretty good living, if you're not a fool), but paying them like their jobs are far more involved and skilled than they really are is asking for trouble. And unfortunately I don't see the union backing any kind of impactful corrective action on that, even if it meant bringing more jobs into the US - not an extended pay freeze, certainly not cuts.

Certainly GM management and engineering have done their part in causing damage to the GM brand, but labor is always a leading business expense, and when you're paying more for labor than you're getting for it in value and you can't get out of it, a company with any hope of relieving that pressure has to look at other avenues - in this case, cheap Mexican labor. The pendulum may be swinging too far into underpaying for the value of labor you get by doing so, but options are limited when the other end of the spectrum is so inflexible.

[ChevyRules]

With the 2015 contract, assembly line workers start at $17/hr and assuming a 40 hour work week, is $32,640. Pay tops after working there for 7 years at $28/hr or $54,000 a year.

So they make a lot closer to that $40k position than the $80k.....

[90503]

"The 2020 Sierra HD goes on sale later this year in 2500HD and 3500HD dual rear wheel and single rear wheel configurations. Pricing and complete specifications will be announced later.

With a $1.5 billion investment to support the next-generation Heavy Duty truck launch, Flint Assembly in Flint, Michigan, will proudly build the 2020 Sierra Heavy Duty."


Has a nice ring to it, wouldn't you say?.....Too bad GM can't have that sort of pride and good news when it comes to the Blazer, though. And to think it's done in Flint with Union labor. The horror!

I'd buy one of these before a 1500 with a 3 (Made in Mexico) as the first character in the VIN. Insist on an American made, non-import GMC or Silverado truck. Check the VIN first.

[lightsOUT]

Originally Posted by 90503

"The 2020 Sierra HD goes on sale later this year in 2500HD and 3500HD dual rear wheel and single rear wheel configurations. Pricing and complete specifications will be announced later.

With a $1.5 billion investment to support the next-generation Heavy Duty truck launch, Flint Assembly in Flint, Michigan, will proudly build the 2020 Sierra Heavy Duty."


Has a nice ring to it, wouldn't you say?.....Too bad GM can't have that sort of pride and good news when it comes to the Blazer, though. And to think it's done in Flint with Union labor. The horror!

I'd buy one of these before a 1500 with a 3 (Made in Mexico) as the first character in the VIN. Insist on an American made, non-import GMC or Silverado truck. Check the VIN first.

You don’t really have a choice. The assembly orientation is segregated by the cab style on the 1500’s.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

With the 2015 contract, assembly line workers start at $17/hr and assuming a 40 hour work week, is $32,640. Pay tops after working there for 7 years at $28/hr or $54,000 a year.

So they make a lot closer to that $40k position than the $80k.....

Still a lot if it's for the roles like I said above, pretty close to unskilled labor. Is the $28k after 7 years automatic regardless of position, or is there an expectation that you will have gained experience and moved on to roles requiring more skill or technical aptitude to earn the extra pay?