Where are we at with Brakes?

[DasBaldDog]

So I am in the market for a new weekend car... Ford bought back my Focus RS for being built wrong and fixed more wrong but I tracked it a few times and got the itch.

I have driven a Z/28 and love the absolute mechanical nature of it, but them brakes.... **** me.


Has anyone run into re-finishing services, aftermarket rotors, etc (I've seen the threads about RacingBrake rotors but the thread kinda peter out on details).

Has anyone else found aftermarket rotors, etc?


Really want to Z/28 shop but looking at consumeables makes my wallet shrivel up (maybe that's a sign I can't afford it, and if that's how it is, that's how it is).

[Og Neon]

Girodisc makes a replacement set of iron rotors. They are a very good company too who make a lot of high brake kits for exotics.

[kramard]

Depending what a monster you are on brakes the stock discs should be 13 - 15 days. I think french squared said he's close to 20? I'm not so lucky. I had a forum member send me used pads with 4 days which looked new - at 4 days I was already thinking about replacing my pads. I got 6 days from first set, 4 from my second set, 2 from my used set. Please note I sometimes run 30 min sessions and/or more then 2 hours a day so the above count may be artificially low taken literally.

As of now, I won't replace the rotors with CCBs - for street driving yes, for track no. Options I'm considering as follows:

• AP Racing Brake - madly expensive @ 4700 + install with a 25mm track pad. Poor Sha runs AP's all four corners on his sub 2min VIR c7z06 and swears by them. They are tested and on a lot of E36 m3 race cars.
• GiroDisc - Looks like a great option and I'm leaning this way. You need to get a custom built set - you need a camaro inner with a corvette z06 z07 outer. Retail is $1200/pair - please note you can replace outer rings for $800/retail. You switch to an ST43 pad or similar (i think its 1395? don't quote me here). I've seen a FAST 5th gen 1LE driver pound girodiscs and he's had no complaints. Retail for pads and rotors +/- $1700 (or just over the cost of 1 CCB disc)
• Zl1/Zl1 1LE stock replacement - it's believed the zl1 / zl1 1le stock rotor will fit @ 750/pair. They appear to be a floating rotor similar to the two options above. There is some confusion on the Zl1 being a 390mm rotor vs the CCB being a 394 mm rotor however literature suggests that the ccbs only have an effective area of 390 thus it should fit. Too boot, pads are 225 for Zl1 pads. I've heard with SRF they are above average to good. If you want monster torque you'll need to go to a racepad but for a do it all pad you can the stock pad and it's cheap. Too me, the biggest question is how much more life do you get out of girodiscs over stock discs. Giro disc said they've heard of people running hard days and making it through 2 - 2.5 pad sets w/ an estimated 10 days per pad. Also, there was an article on FB not long ago that a GT3 user got 40 days iirc on a AP Racing Brake's discs.

Lots to consider. I'm in brake buying mode now and will be making a decision in the next two weeks. I'd like to run a new setup at VIR on memorial day to compare braking data. I've got lots of good data on worn CCBs so can comapre dec gs etc to a new setup.

Lot's of info for you here. Sorry for the long post but hope it helps. To answer your questions here's how I calculate consumables costs

Tires: Supercar 3r 305 all four corners square: 3days (1300/3) = 433/day (bad alignment may have cost these guys one day but I got 3 on my first. LOVE the tire though)
Pads: Stock pads 450 front 375 rear: 450/5, 375/10 = 90+37.5 = 127.5
Rotors (CCB): Front CCBs 3000/15 rear ccbs 3000/30 = 367+100 = 467
Rotors (Iron): Front 750/10 rear 1300/20 = 75+65 = 140 (assume similar pad costs - race pads are same price as our stock pads maybe 50 bucks less?)
Insurance: 250 for 42500 in value/day with a 10% ded. (I buy 35% of the time depending how I feel, whether or not I'm instructing and if my goal is to set a personal best laptime or just cruise and load the car up. Also some tracks have enough run off I'm inclined to assume the risk)
Track fee: 0 - 275 / day (whether or not I'm instructing)

Worst case (w/ insurance and track day fee) CCB: 1,552/day + fuel, food, loding
Worst case (w/ insurance and track day fee) Steel: 1,225/day + fuel, food, loding

Let me just say that a) my "day" is 2hrs ( opposed to 80min) so you can probably take a % of the above cost. b) I seem to be really hard on brakes and tires (I like to drift, and I like to slide / use rotation for speed). So consider the above worst case. I run 2:04 at VIR and use 3/4 of a brake pad, another forum member runs 2:07 and uses the same brake pad for 8 days so please keep my actuals with the aforementioned in mind.

P.S. - I'm looking at a Focus RS as a DD / part time track toy. I'm going to use the camaro 4 - 5 days a year and get the rest of my fix with an RS. Sounds like you want to talk me out of that...

Hope this helps! I hate doing the $/day math!

[kramard]

Originally Posted by kramard

Insurance: 250 for 42500 in value/day with a 10% ded. (I buy 35% of the

Sorry one thing to add - I got a 2.5 year old ls7 loving son so I only do single day events. RLI insurance can be spread across 3 days. So for me it's 250/day but for you it could be as little as 250 for 2 or 3 days depending on your sitch.

[GMteSSted]

If your not going to track the car, the brakes will probably last as long as you own the car as weekend driver.
I'm sure others will share their experiences.
For me I've put over 5,000 hard track miles and 6,000 street miles on my Z and just now replaced the original pads. I weighed and measured the rotors and there was zero wear from when they were new, the brakes are awesome.

[Tankslapper]

Originally Posted by kramard

Depending what a monster you are on brakes the stock discs should be 13 - 15 days. I think french squared said he's close to 20? I'm not so lucky. I had a forum member send me used pads with 4 days which looked new - at 4 days I was already thinking about replacing my pads. I got 6 days from first set, 4 from my second set, 2 from my used set. Please note I sometimes run 30 min sessions and/or more then 2 hours a day so the above count may be artificially low taken literally.

As of now, I won't replace the rotors with CCBs - for street driving yes, for track no. Options I'm considering as follows:

• AP Racing Brake - madly expensive @ 4700 + install with a 25mm track pad. Poor Sha runs AP's all four corners on his sub 2min VIR c7z06 and swears by them. They are tested and on a lot of E36 m3 race cars.
• GiroDisc - Looks like a great option and I'm leaning this way. You need to get a custom built set - you need a camaro inner with a corvette z06 z07 outer. Retail is $1200/pair - please note you can replace outer rings for $800/retail. You switch to an ST43 pad or similar (i think its 1395? don't quote me here). I've seen a FAST 5th gen 1LE driver pound girodiscs and he's had no complaints. Retail for pads and rotors +/- $1700 (or just over the cost of 1 CCB disc)
• Zl1/Zl1 1LE stock replacement - it's believed the zl1 / zl1 1le stock rotor will fit @ 750/pair. They appear to be a floating rotor similar to the two options above. There is some confusion on the Zl1 being a 390mm rotor vs the CCB being a 394 mm rotor however literature suggests that the ccbs only have an effective area of 390 thus it should fit. Too boot, pads are 225 for Zl1 pads. I've heard with SRF they are above average to good. If you want monster torque you'll need to go to a racepad but for a do it all pad you can the stock pad and it's cheap. Too me, the biggest question is how much more life do you get out of girodiscs over stock discs. Giro disc said they've heard of people running hard days and making it through 2 - 2.5 pad sets w/ an estimated 10 days per pad. Also, there was an article on FB not long ago that a GT3 user got 40 days iirc on a AP Racing Brake's discs.

Lots to consider. I'm in brake buying mode now and will be making a decision in the next two weeks. I'd like to run a new setup at VIR on memorial day to compare braking data. I've got lots of good data on worn CCBs so can comapre dec gs etc to a new setup.

Lot's of info for you here. Sorry for the long post but hope it helps. To answer your questions here's how I calculate consumables costs

Tires: Supercar 3r 305 all four corners square: 3days (1300/3) = 433/day (bad alignment may have cost these guys one day but I got 3 on my first. LOVE the tire though)
Pads: Stock pads 450 front 375 rear: 450/5, 375/10 = 90+37.5 = 127.5
Rotors (CCB): Front CCBs 3000/15 rear ccbs 3000/30 = 367+100 = 467
Rotors (Iron): Front 750/10 rear 1300/20 = 75+65 = 140 (assume similar pad costs - race pads are same price as our stock pads maybe 50 bucks less?)
Insurance: 250 for 42500 in value/day with a 10% ded. (I buy 35% of the time depending how I feel, whether or not I'm instructing and if my goal is to set a personal best laptime or just cruise and load the car up. Also some tracks have enough run off I'm inclined to assume the risk)
Track fee: 0 - 275 / day (whether or not I'm instructing)

Worst case (w/ insurance and track day fee) CCB: 1,552/day + fuel, food, loding
Worst case (w/ insurance and track day fee) Steel: 1,225/day + fuel, food, loding

Let me just say that a) my "day" is 2hrs ( opposed to 80min) so you can probably take a % of the above cost. b) I seem to be really hard on brakes and tires (I like to drift, and I like to slide / use rotation for speed). So consider the above worst case. I run 2:04 at VIR and use 3/4 of a brake pad, another forum member runs 2:07 and uses the same brake pad for 8 days so please keep my actuals with the aforementioned in mind.

P.S. - I'm looking at a Focus RS as a DD / part time track toy. I'm going to use the camaro 4 - 5 days a year and get the rest of my fix with an RS. Sounds like you want to talk me out of that...

Hope this helps! I hate doing the $/day math!

I hate you doing the math as well!

I noticed folks are experiencing very different wear rates on tires and pads, no doubt that is related to how fast you drive it but I guess on these heavy cars that gets multiplied. From personal experience, as I get faster I go thru pads and tires much much faster, probably at 4days for the tires and about the same for the front pads ar the moment but probably 6 the year before so I can see how your numbers are possible. It makes me think twice about putting another 100hp into the car, awesome to get the car moving around and gaining another 2/3 seconds a lap but I suspect at least another day knocked off the above numbers. Anyway, I ramble, the difference for me is the rotors, no issues so far. I read somewhere there is a ratio Ccb to pads and it’s much higher than your 3 to 1, at least x3 that but again it probably comes back to how fast you are..
I had the pleasure of driving a zl1 1le on the track last weekend and the brakes were awesome, if you can get the rotors to fit I would try them out.

[z28monster]

The descriptive math ^^^ is the reason I stopped trying to beat my own time(s) every single time on a road course track.

Still a member of my track-course, but now I just drive my 991 GT3 70% of what I used to - comparable to very spirited driving on public roads - and I've noticed the longevity of tires, brake pads, etc. Got tired of blowing money left and right.

But this is not to discourage people from going full bore on the track!

[kramard]

Originally Posted by z28monster

The descriptive math ^^^ is the reason I stopped trying to beat my own time(s) every single time on a road course track.

Still a member of my track-course, but now I just drive my 991 GT3 70% of what I used to - comparable to very spirited driving on public roads - and I've noticed the longevity of tires, brake pads, etc. Got tired of blowing money left and right. But this is not to discourage people from going full bore on the track!

It’s the worst. I’m always looking for speed. Funny thing is a 2:06 or a 2:04 at vir feel the same. You know the difference from the laptimer and the values in the data but othwerwise slowing down a bit helps. Even at 7/10 you’re way over what you can do on the street.

[1970judge]

Just to throw in my .02 here, I will freely admit that I am not a track rat. I want to be, but with work the way it is and the limited season the midwest has I can only get 2 track days in per season. Last year, I got so busy I got NONE. 0 track miles. The end of this year/next year will be much easier for me.

Id love to have 10-20+ track days under my belt, I just havent been able to. So for this year, to supplement I have decided I will auto-x. You might consider it. I didnt consider it at all, but at the price/time spent I can squeeze in a couple of those for every track day. Just a thought, it will be considerably less harsh on consumables. Last year I got so jammed up track prepping and then ended up missing the track day at the last minute, I could have went to 2 separate auto-x events.

[frenchsquared]

Originally Posted by kramard

I think french squared said he's close to 20?

Ya... I think 20 is doable. I changed my braking style. I am not as hard on them as when I first got the car. I am working on smoother motions that increase the life of the rotors. Tires and pads are my big expense. Im not nearly as worried about rotors since they have dropped so much in price. Yes they are high... but just budget for them. Put that money aside each track day.

I love the Z28, but if you really want to do a lot of track days... Just get a C5 Corvette. Everything is cheaper and they are just as fun on the track. There not as cool, but damn do they cost less.

[s.hammer]

Its not as bad as you think if you are only doing a handful of days per year. 20+ days on the front rotors is definitely doable going off of the minimum width stamped onto the hat. Rear rotors I can only guess to last 30+. As the rotors wear, you will wear pads at a quicker rate as the rotor surface gets rougher. This wear is based on a couple of tracks with 2 or 3 moderately heavy brake zones, (50-90mph drop in speed). If the track you are going to run on has heavier brake zones or more, you may have more wear. If you want some exact numbers, pm me. I can tell you I know of at least a couple of Zs that got better than 25 days out of fronts rotors. Tires are a whole other issue, lol

Front rotors - 1308.00 is the cheapest I have seen
Front/Rear pads - 440.00ish

Anyone, let me know if you have seen cheaper, I am just about ready to stock up.

[Gtiwv]

It looks like I can get 2 events from a front set of pads and 3 from a rear set (2 days per event, 2.5 hours/day). This is also based on only wearing them to half to help the rotor life.

Overall, carbons don’t make sense. My girodisc’s are en route to my house. Have an event at mid Ohio on Memorial Day and will see how they work there. Will probably use the ST43 pad.

[DasBaldDog]

Originally Posted by kramard

P.S. - I'm looking at a Focus RS as a DD / part time track toy. I'm going to use the camaro 4 - 5 days a year and get the rest of my fix with an RS. Sounds like you want to talk me out of that...

Hope this helps! I hate doing the $/day math!

Thank you very much!

And actually I wouldn't talk you out of an RS.... mine was a friggin RIOT to drive. Giant ass grin from ear to ear.... before she went pop anyways.


If you were going to get one, I'd get it CPO with the headgasket already done (if 2016 or 17) or wait for the depreciation on any of them (even the 18s). The depreciation on these is murder. You can get brand new 17's for 8k+ off msrp if you shop around and if you bought it, drove it next door, you'll get offered 10k less than you just paid.

I would buy another one, a few years from now when they've bottomed out and I don't care about ripping the engine out and putting a stroker ST block in, etc and they've worked out the cooling/RDU issues.

I've been lusting after a Ford WRC car since the early Need For Speed games.... maybe that's the issue.... I met my hero.

[pat_t]

For what it's worth - I track my car and I will just be replacing the discs and pads with more OE Brembo items as and when it's needed. I've taken some weight out of the car which definitely helps. I'll be taking more kgs out over the next year or two.

I'm also working on an improved front brake duct design with my 3D printing friends which I hope to make available for sale once fully tested. Again this should help to extend disc and pad life a little...