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Old 05-24-2016, 10:21 AM   #113
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Still a bargain. The Zeta based Z/28 outran the C6 ZR1 and C6 Z06 in C&D's Lightning Lap both of which cost more as equipped.






.
Kind of a straw man argument there. Those guys are not professional drivers. Look at the ring times. The ZR1 and C6Z06 put a beatdown on the z/28.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:24 AM   #114
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Kind of a straw man argument there. Those guys are not professional drivers. Look at the ring times. The ZR1 and C6Z06 put a beatdown on the z/28.
But none of us are professional drivers, are we? And the Ring is very, very long....most of us are more likely to end up somewhere like VIR, Willow, or Laguna Seca.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:33 AM   #115
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Huh? There are 1300 Hellcat Challengers sitting on lots right now.





.


I'm agreeing with you but I thought they sold. Either way my point remains valid. Some cars make money by selling out, some make money by drawing people in for the bait and switch. Either way, the dealers aren't complaining.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:47 AM   #116
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I see no proof. I see a 2014 Z/28 that a buyer backed out of because the dealer tried to slap a $10k market adjustment on at the time of delivery. The dealer chooses to sit on that car then that's his business.

It's semantics, but you did say all 500 were sold. That car is not sold lol.

Still a bargain. The Zeta based Z/28 outran the C6 ZR1 and C6 Z06 in C&D's Lightning Lap both of which cost more as equipped.


And the C6Z06 out ran the Z/28 by 3 seconds at Laguna Seca. 1:34 to 1:37. Different days/tracks/drivers

Yes still an amazing performance machine



Times they are a changing. I went from an E46 M3 to a E60 535 to a CTS-V as my daily driver. The only reason to put up with BMW was performance and driver engagement. They lost that and I left the brand.



Yes, the poser market will prefer GTR's, R8's and 911's but how many of those are going to ever see a track? I wouldn't loose sleep at night if my $40k 1LE or $65k Z/28 got peppered with rock chips at VIR. The Z/28 is a low cost off the shelf track car with exceptional performance. It's not a status symbol.

Agreed its a track car, I think where this thread got really off was the thought of what happens if the Z/28 approaches between 80 and 100K

Still a great value as an off the shelf track car. Far less than track cars from competitors (with the exception of the GT350R which is also a great value).

You said something nice about Ford I am writing it down!


According to Autotrader there are only 50 Z/28's available nationwide. That's 3% of production. There are currently 48 2014/2015 Viper's sitting on lots too. This is a niche market - not everyone wants an off-the-shelf track car.



Huh? There are 1300 Hellcat Challengers sitting on lots right now.



This^ I've never purchased a track car brand new (let someone else eat the depreciation). But for the 1LE prices, it is easily something I wouldn't hesitate to beat on and not regret.
Like I said I think a lot of the back and forth here came from the idea of a Camaro with a list price at 80K or above.

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But none of us are professional drivers, are we? And the Ring is very, very long....most of us are more likely to end up somewhere like VIR, Willow, or Laguna Seca.
True the ring is very long, so I will stick with Laguna Seca and Randy's lap times for internet bench racing lol.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:51 AM   #117
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But none of us are professional drivers, are we? And the Ring is very, very long....most of us are more likely to end up somewhere like VIR, Willow, or Laguna Seca.
Well I haven't driven the C6Z06 Or the gen5 z/28 but being an anonymous person on the internet and therefore an expert I don't think the Camaro is in the same league. The lighting lap issue makes for some fun keyboard/ magazine racing but it's more for fun than an actual indication of the cars prowess. Do you really think a gen 5 Z/28 out performs a C6 Z06?
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:56 AM   #118
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Kind of a straw man argument there. Those guys are not professional drivers. Look at the ring times. The ZR1 and C6Z06 put a beatdown on the z/28.
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But none of us are professional drivers, are we? And the Ring is very, very long....most of us are more likely to end up somewhere like VIR, Willow, or Laguna Seca.
Nurburgring times are nebulous at best (see GT-R vs 911 war). I'm sure Randy Pobst could squeeze every ounce of performance out of these cars but as an enthusiast I'm far more interested in what I can achieve at a local track which is why Lighting Lap is more relevant to me. For the money the Z/28 offers outstanding performance leaving plenty of money left for tires, brakes and track time.

Ultimately I wouldn't buy a track car new, just like I wouldn't be a Jeep new if my intention was to dedicate it to trail use. But this niche market of track-oriented cars is fantastic, even if purchased second hand.

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I'm agreeing with you but I thought they sold. Either way my point remains valid. Some cars make money by selling out, some make money by drawing people in for the bait and switch. Either way, the dealers aren't complaining.
Yep, halo effect. Keep the enthusiast talking/reading about those cars while driving the 4-cylinder version

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Well I haven't driven the C6Z06 Or the gen5 z/28 but being an anonymous person on the internet and therefore an expert I don't think the Camaro is in the same league. The lighting lap issue makes for some fun keyboard/ magazine racing but it's more for fun than an actual indication of the cars prowess. Do you really think a gen 5 Z/28 out performs a C6 Z06?
We had a 2012 C6 Z06 dedicated for track use. After 2 years, it was still a handful to drive at the limit. I haven't driven the Z/28 but I've been on track with one in a 997 GT3 and I will tell you it was right up my ass more times than I care to remember.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:28 PM   #119
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Well I haven't driven the C6Z06 Or the gen5 z/28 but being an anonymous person on the internet and therefore an expert I don't think the Camaro is in the same league. The lighting lap issue makes for some fun keyboard/ magazine racing but it's more for fun than an actual indication of the cars prowess. Do you really think a gen 5 Z/28 out performs a C6 Z06?
Depends on the option packages. Those Trofeo's are wicked, the carbon ceramic brakes are ridiculous. Base Z06 has neither of those, and the standard Goodyear's on the Z06 would be it's weakest link.

I have to review the lightning lap times...they might be fun...but they are probably the most objective comparison between a myriad of performance cars around the same track. Results can sometimes be surprising!
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:43 PM   #120
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Depends on the option packages. Those Trofeo's are wicked, the carbon ceramic brakes are ridiculous. Base Z06 has neither of those, and the standard Goodyear's on the Z06 would be it's weakest link.

I have to review the lightning lap times...they might be fun...but they are probably the most objective comparison between a myriad of performance cars around the same track. Results can sometimes be surprising!
RP lapped the gen 5 1LE within 2 seconds of the Z06/07 at streets of willow so I guess our 1LE's are comparable to?

That's why people use the ring. It's long, incredibly demanding on the vehicle and the driver and generally since the manufacturers are paying big bucks for track time and bragging rights they send the best drivers they can.

This is fun I can't wait to bench race the new Z's on here LOL
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:54 PM   #121
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RP lapped the gen 5 1LE within 2 seconds of the Z06/07 at streets of willow so I guess our 1LE's are comparable to?

That's why people use the ring. It's long, incredibly demanding on the vehicle and the driver and generally since the manufacturers are paying big bucks for track time and bragging rights they send the best drivers they can.

This is fun I can't wait to bench race the new Z's on here LOL
Just because it's incredulous doesn't mean it's impossible. The Ring changes nothing, really...it just scales out the time differences between cars. It's a 13 mile course...with several very long straights where you can get up to speed.

Willow and other smaller tracks don't allow for sustained 150+mph speeds.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:35 PM   #122
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While GM is tossing a V6 1LE towards us enthusiasts, for about the same cost, Ford and Dodge will put us enthusiasts in a V8. Both have the same CAFE standards to meet.
This is just the beginning and I think GM is smart to test the market with a V6 1LE.
If CAFE stays how it is currently on the books then the other brands will have follow suit to some degree in the next generations.
CAFE is all political so that can change with the next President or Congress but the trend to higher fuel economy is on the rise.

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Are serious track guys going to buy a V6 1LE? No, they aren't.
It will be quite interesting to see the take rate of the 1LE package on the LT Camaro.
Not so far they have not but as we have seen already from GM on the 6th Gen Camaro SS's being in the $40K range there may come a time in the next generation that the V8's are just too premium priced for the average enthusiast to afford. We are not there yet but this could be a choice that some enthusiasts will have to make. They may only be able to afford the V6 Pony Car and in this case GM is getting a head start with the 1LE variant.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:37 PM   #123
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Times they are a changing. I went from an E46 M3 to a E60 535 to a CTS-V as my daily driver. The only reason to put up with BMW was performance and driver engagement. They lost that and I left the brand.



According to Autotrader there are only 50 Z/28's available nationwide.
That's 3% of production. There are currently 48 2014/2015 Viper's sitting on lots too. This is a niche market - not everyone wants an off-the-shelf track car.
AutoTrader is wrong. Cars.Com shows 65 new Z/28s within 500 miles of my Zip Code alone and 171 nationally. And this is weeks AFTER the big fire sale of 15% or more off.

C.C shows 41 new Vipers coast to coast.

And you are the rarity who went from BMW to GM. Good for you.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:54 PM   #124
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This is just the beginning and I think GM is smart to test the market with a V6 1LE.
If CAFE stays how it is currently on the books then the other brands will have follow suit to some degree in the next generations.
CAFE is all political so that can change with the next President or Congress but the trend to higher fuel economy is on the rise.



Not so far they have not but as we have seen already from GM on the 6th Gen Camaro SS's being in the $40K range there may come a time in the next generation that the V8's are just too premium priced for the average enthusiast to afford. We are not there yet but this could be a choice that some enthusiasts will have to make. They may only be able to afford the V6 Pony Car and in this case GM is getting a head start with the 1LE variant.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the LT 1LE option, I am for as many options with these cars as possible. My rub is that this seems to be Chevy's answer to the lower priced Mustang GT and Challenger R/T. The V6 is what my local dealer tried to push me towards when I mentioned I was interested in a Camaro with a V8 in the same vein and price point as the R/T and GT. I am one of the people who would be happy with a nice V8 cruiser Camaro LT. I have no need for 455HP or the $37k starting price. If Chevy was offer a smaller V8 as an option on the LT line, priced like the R/T, I'd be seriously looking at purchasing.

As of now,
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:07 PM   #125
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AutoTrader is wrong. Cars.Com shows 65 new Z/28s within 500 miles of my Zip Code alone and 171 nationally. And this is weeks AFTER the big fire sale of 15% or more off.

C.C shows 41 new Vipers coast to coast.

And you are the rarity who went from BMW to GM. Good for you.
Cars.com shows 59 at any distance from me, including '14s. Maybe something with your search criteria?

Year All $0 - $80,000 New Z/28 Chevrolet Camaro


https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...Source=UTILITY
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:22 PM   #126
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Cars.com shows 59 at any distance from me, including '14s. Maybe something with your search criteria?

Year All $0 - $80,000 New Z/28 Chevrolet Camaro


https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...Source=UTILITY
Yep - I didn't catch that it was getting Used as well as new. Still shows 61 though all new.
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