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Old 01-27-2020, 07:56 AM   #15
JANNETTYRACING

 
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IAT sensor relocation with Water Meth.

Something else I would like to add regarding the air intake sensor as a fail safe or for monitoring actual IAT.

I see so many people install the Air temp sensor right after the meth nozzle or just on the other side of the TB in the entry of the intake.

That placement in my opinion is too close and will not give real data.

The Sensor should be placed in the rear most portion of the intake and never make contact with any liquid.

It is an Air temp sensor and should not be used as a liquid sensor.

By being place in the rearmost portion of the intake furthest from the meth nozzle you will get real IAT readings that are entering the intake ports.

To many are bragging about how low thier IAT is after install WM with the sensor in the path of liquid.

Plus Depending on the tune may be falsely adding timing which can be catastrophic.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:16 AM   #16
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I agree and am also upgrading my fuel system to turn my meth way down. It works and makes power on all my builds but I really feel its a band aid covering up the $ it takes to upgrade to a real fuel system.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:38 AM   #17
TJay74


 
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For those wonder, Ted speaks the truth.

The shop that installed and tuned my car with the Procharger D1SC swore you couldnt run the car on the full LT4 fuel system and make power without blowing it up. They pushed me towards the Alky Controls dual nozzle meth inj system.

1st thing Ted and I did when I brought him on board was turn the meth inj off, start over on the tune once the full LT4 fuel system was installed and get the car running right. It runs great on Ted's tuning with zero issues.

Since then and after very long conversations with the owner over Alky Controls I turned the meth inj system back on after some changes were made to it, but in my case I am using it for air charge cooling only. The mix is 50/50 of VP Racing M1 methanol and distilled water. I could probably even drop to 40/60 methanol/distilled water and prob will on the next batch. This will offer the least amount of change to the fueling.

Meth injection has its place, but as Ted said not as a fuel source. Ge the fuel system sorted out properly and then use meth injection as it was designed.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Something else I would like to add regarding the air intake sensor as a fail safe or for monitoring actual IAT.

I see so many people install the Air temp sensor right after the meth nozzle or just on the other side of the TB in the entry of the intake.

That placement in my opinion is too close and will not give real data.

The Sensor should be placed in the rear most portion of the intake and never make contact with any liquid.

It is an Air temp sensor and should not be used as a liquid sensor.

By being place in the rearmost portion of the intake furthest from the meth nozzle you will get real IAT readings that are entering the intake ports.

To many are bragging about how low thier IAT is after install WM with the sensor in the path of liquid.

Plus Depending on the tune may be falsely adding timing which can be catastrophic.
Exactly...and at this point should we even call them IAT's any longer and instead classify them as MAT(Manifold Air Temp)? It seems to me that MAT is far more important then the inlet air temp in front of the throttle body on a FI application.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:34 AM   #19
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I respect the comments (private and public) from those who have been at it for a good while. Coming at it with fresh eyes, Looked around to find Snows offering.

Clearly marketed as Boost Cooler, they make no pretense that its a temp mitigation tool. TO me it seems the MW thing has a lot of intertia as a tinker toy to throw more of anything that burns (explodes) in the combustion chamber.

I was on Aquamist for a while to, to find out they partnered with an OEM to offers it as a factory option on exotics. your talking full Failback integration of course.

In my project -the LTG is very sensitive and though its "new-wave" tech, my hypothesis is that with proper dosing and control, it will be a net plus with conservative, safe. tuning.

After I get it reviewed, If we have to load timing more than can be trimmed by KR safely I will be the first to say that it may not be a "performance convenience" product that works safely on the LTG anyways.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:37 AM   #20
TJay74


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Exactly...and at this point should we even call them IAT's any longer and instead classify them as MAT(Manifold Air Temp)? It seems to me that MAT is far more important then the inlet air temp in front of the throttle body on a FI application.


I agree.

I was talking with an engineer about airflow and fluid dynamics and placement of the IAT. I mentioned where I was placing my IAT versus putting it in the rear of the intake. The engineers response was it doesnt matter. The air is going to be "wet" at either location, in all actuality the air will be "wet" all the way into the combustion chamber until it is burned off.

With a supercharged application there is alot more airflow versus the N/A application. When I tested the 5gph nozzles in the Alky Controls system it was a super fine mist that came out of them. That coupled with the amount of air the supercharger pushes across the nozzles isnt going to allow much time for evaporation from the beginning point of injection to the rear of the intake manifold or into the combustion chamber.

I set my Alky Controls system to not come online until around 6-7 psi, so far the data logging shows it works very well. IAT timing changes can be corrected as well by zeroing out any timing additions that come from the IAT table.

Being smart with the usage of the meth inj will allow it to do what the injection system was designed to do, cool the air charge.
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Old 01-29-2020, 09:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJay74 View Post
I agree.

I was talking with an engineer about airflow and fluid dynamics and placement of the IAT. I mentioned where I was placing my IAT versus putting it in the rear of the intake. The engineers response was it doesnt matter. The air is going to be "wet" at either location, in all actuality the air will be "wet" all the way into the combustion chamber until it is burned off.
.
That is debatable, depending on where it is sprayed and at what temp it is sprayed in to.

Look at the temp at which Methanol converts from a liquid to a gas as well as Water.

The combination of the 2 will determine the temp at which this occurs.

If your air temp is above that number it will enter the combustion chamber as a Gas not a liquid.

Ted.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:30 AM   #22
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I agree Ted

I did as much research as I could while also asking an engineer of their input. I work with nothing but engineers so at times they are actually useful...lol

I plan on monitoring the logs for a bit and see how the car does. Hoping to get some dyno data in the next 4 weeks as well.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJay74 View Post
I agree Ted

I did as much research as I could while also asking an engineer of their input. I work with nothing but engineers so at times they are actually useful...lol

I plan on monitoring the logs for a bit and see how the car does. Hoping to get some dyno data in the next 4 weeks as well.
Good Deal.
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