[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I don't think the base GT500 will be anywhere near 75k, probably between 65-68k is my guess. While the 500 is impressive and faster than the GT350, it is not considered a limited run vehicle as its been in production for a long run. While there will be initial dealer markups I think they will be short lived and nothing like we have seen for the GT350. After 2020 the 350 may once again disappear for a long period of time.

Looking back there was only a $5,000.00 difference between the 2013 Boss LS and the GT500.

The problem with the GT500 is that it has features that are not shared with other vehicles. The RE MSRP base is low but when you think about it, that is just a modded Hellcat with a modded Hellcat drivetrain. The GT500 will have a completely different drivetrain, an all new engine, and a bunch of features even on the base model. No way in hell it will be under $70K. Not for a 700+ HP car.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by hotlap

What is your opinion about comparison?

2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R, 2:51.8 - Lightning Lap
2015 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28, 2:50.9 - Lightning Lap

He should be looking at these times at Laguna Seca
Camaro 1le 1:37.78
Mustang GT PP2 1:38.42

Reply from Randy.

When asked how the Mustang GT PP2 compares to the Camaro SS 1LE, Randy quickly replied, "It's not balanced like that damn Camaro. It's still not there, but it could be. Just a little tweaky-tweak." Besides the difference in the outright lap times, which were close, the Mustang's twitchy entry attitude and its pesky stability control system were no match for the composure and confidence supplied by the Camaro SS 1LE—even on a street tire. Can you imagine what the Camaro would do on a Pilot Sport Cup 2? This round goes to the Camaro.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You said it was $20K more expensive and 4 tenths slower. So if you were talking about the 5th Gen ZL1 then the Z28 was NOT 4 tenths slower...they were neck and neck. If you were talking about the 6th Gen ZL1 then the Z28 was NOT $20K more expensive. So you were wrong either way.

Car and Driver
2015 ZL1 12.4@117 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...1-test-review/
2014 Z28 12.7@116 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

Motor Trend
2014 Z28 12.3@117.2 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...28-first-test/
2014 ZL1 12.2@116.6 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodg...r-srt-hellcat/

Whipped in a drag race by a $19k cheaper car...

Let’s not go back to LaLa land.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

He should be looking at these times at Laguna Seca
Camaro 1le 1:37.78
Mustang GT PP2 1:38.42

Reply from Randy.

When asked how the Mustang GT PP2 compares to the Camaro SS 1LE, Randy quickly replied, "It's not balanced like that damn Camaro. It's still not there, but it could be. Just a little tweaky-tweak." Besides the difference in the outright lap times, which were close, the Mustang's twitchy entry attitude and its pesky stability control system were no match for the composure and confidence supplied by the Camaro SS 1LE—even on a street tire. Can you imagine what the Camaro would do on a Pilot Sport Cup 2? This round goes to the Camaro.

You’d also think that he would have read the conclusion of the PP2 lighting lap article that he likes to reference.

it's clear that the Performance Pack Level 2 is Ford's way of making sure the Camaro 1LE doesn't run off with the roses while the Mustang is still kicking up dirt on the track. To that end, it succeeds and frankly, in terms of track prowess, is far more accomplished than we could have imagined. Still, it trails the Camaro SS 1LE in terms of almost-supernatural reserves of dynamic capability.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Car and Driver
2015 ZL1 12.4@117 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...1-test-review/
2014 Z28 12.7@116 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

Motor Trend
2014 Z28 12.3@117.2 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...28-first-test/
2014 ZL1 12.2@116.6 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodg...r-srt-hellcat/

Whipped in a drag race by a $19k cheaper car...

Let’s not go back to LaLa land.

Is it 4 tenths of a second like you said? No. Are they neck and neck like I said? Yes. Are you wrong? Very much so.

You can't even admit when you make a false statement and I find that hilarious. Because you keep trying to gloss over the facts and save face simply because you are humiliated that you didn't know what you were talking about. I understand that you cannot admit that you were wrong and especially not to me. But you were and I'm sitting here laughing at it. You were wrong. And all your cherry picked articles at best still prove that you are wrong. But don't worry, all the trolls before you did the exact same thing.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

He should be looking at these times at Laguna Seca
Camaro 1le 1:37.78
Mustang GT PP2 1:38.42

Reply from Randy.

When asked how the Mustang GT PP2 compares to the Camaro SS 1LE, Randy quickly replied, "It's not balanced like that damn Camaro. It's still not there, but it could be. Just a little tweaky-tweak." Besides the difference in the outright lap times, which were close, the Mustang's twitchy entry attitude and its pesky stability control system were no match for the composure and confidence supplied by the Camaro SS 1LE—even on a street tire. Can you imagine what the Camaro would do on a Pilot Sport Cup 2? This round goes to the Camaro.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...t-test-review/

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Is it 4 tenths of a second like you said? No. Are they neck and neck like I said? Yes. Are you wrong? Very much so.

You can't even admit when you make a false statement and I find that hilarious. Because you keep trying to gloss over the facts and save face simply because you are humiliated that you didn't know what you were talking about. I understand that you cannot admit that you were wrong and especially not to me. But you were and I'm sitting here laughing at it. You were wrong. And all your cherry picked articles at best still prove that you are wrong. But don't worry, all the trolls before you did the exact same thing.

3/10’s or 1/10 it’s still slower for almost $20k more...those poor Z28 owners, how could they bare the ridicule?

Maybe this place isn’t LaLa land after all , maybe it’s just your nonsensical ranting that make it seem that way.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Car and Driver
2015 ZL1 12.4@117 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...1-test-review/
2014 Z28 12.7@116 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

Motor Trend
2014 Z28 12.3@117.2 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...28-first-test/
2014 ZL1 12.2@116.6 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodg...r-srt-hellcat/

Whipped in a drag race by a $19k cheaper car...

Let’s not go back to LaLa land.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

3/10’s or 1/10 it’s still slower for almost $20k more...those poor Z28 owners, how could they bare the ridicule?

Maybe this place isn’t LaLa land after all , maybe it’s just your nonsensical ranting that make it seem that way.

Z28 runs a 12.2 @ 118. Translation: You are wrong.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...t-camaro-z-28/

12.3 @ 117
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...ro-z28-review/

Yet again you are wrong. It ran a 12.2 best to the ZL1's 12.2 best. And that is a NA engine with 505 HP against a supercharged 580 HP engine. And it is a manual tras against an auto trans. And the Z28 beats that ZL1 around a track. So again and again and yet again you are wrong and continue to be proven wrong. Yet you still open your mouth talking about things you know nothing about.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Car and Driver
2015 ZL1 12.4@117 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...1-test-review/
2014 Z28 12.7@116 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

Motor Trend
2014 Z28 12.3@117.2 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...28-first-test/
2014 ZL1 12.2@116.6 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodg...r-srt-hellcat/

Whipped in a drag race by a $19k cheaper car...

Let’s not go back to LaLa land.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

3/10’s or 1/10 it’s still slower for almost $20k more...those poor Z28 owners, how could they bare the ridicule?

Maybe this place isn’t LaLa land after all , maybe it’s just your nonsensical ranting that make it seem that way.

Now what is very funny is that the GT350R costs over $30K more than the base GT and it loses by 2-3 tenths of a second. So since we are using your rules (comparing the Z28 to the ZL1) then the same applies to Mustang world. A $65K Shelby that gets beaten by 2-3 tenths of a second by a base GT that costs $30K less is pathetic. That is going by your reasoning.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How would you all categorize the M5?

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Friggin awesome.

I agree. But I ask that because with all the back and forth about whether a car is a track car or a GT. Sometimes it’s AND. An M5 is clearly a track car AND a GT. So is a ZL1. So is a GT350. So is a GT500.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Z28 runs a 12.2 @ 118. Translation: You are wrong.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...t-camaro-z-28/

12.3 @ 117
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...ro-z28-review/

Yet again you are wrong. It ran a 12.2 best to the ZL1's 12.2 best. And that is a NA engine with 505 HP against a supercharged 580 HP engine. And it is a manual tras against an auto trans. And the Z28 beats that ZL1 around a track. So again and again and yet again you are wrong and continue to be proven wrong. Yet you still open your mouth talking about things you know nothing about.

LOL you try to cherry pick the 1 review with the Z28 running faster than the ZL1 by the only publication that apparently never even bothered to review the ZL1. Every other reviewer that tested both has the Z28 slower.

I accept your horseshit fantasy... the 18GT is an 11.9 car (Cars.com) and the SS is a 12.2(Hot Rod)

The $75k Z28 is every bit as fast as the $56k ZL1...,LOL

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

LOL you try to cherry pick the 1 review with the Z28 running faster than the ZL1 by the only publication that apparently never even bothered to review the ZL1. Every other reviewer that tested both has the Z28 slower.

I accept your horseshit fantasy... the 18GT is an 11.9 car (Cars.com) and the SS is a 12.2(Hot Rod)

The $75k Z28 is every bit as fast as the $56k ZL1...,LOL

Yea pal I think you're starting to lose it a bit. So let's back up. You said the Z28 costs $20K more than the ZL1 and was 4 tenths slower. You were wrong. And you're embarrassed. Then you went on these tangents to save face and you're still wrong. Fastest reviewed 5th Gen ZL1 is 12.2. Fastest reviewed Z28 is 12.2. Those are facts. You don't have to admit that you were wrong and didn't know what you were talking about because we all know.

Now on the other hand, the GT350R IS well over $20K more expensive than the GT. And the GT beats the GT350R by 2 tenths at least. Those are also facts.

So the things you said in criticism of the Z28 were completely false. Yet they apply to the GT350R. So your criticism directly applies to the GT350R. Does it not? I'd ask you to answer that question but there's no need. So this is where I step in like you wanted me to earlier and start insulting the Shelby. But I don't even have to now. Thanks skippy.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The problem with the GT500 is that it has features that are not shared with other vehicles. The RE MSRP base is low but when you think about it, that is just a modded Hellcat with a modded Hellcat drivetrain. The GT500 will have a completely different drivetrain, an all new engine, and a bunch of features even on the base model. No way in hell it will be under $70K. Not for a 700+ HP car.

Agreed an entirely different drivetrain will drive up the price. I still think 80-85k.

[Craig]

M5? Maybe if leasing. Had a coworker who lost compression in two cylinders 4K miles out of warranty. BMW decided after a month to cover it and it took them two more to ship a new engine over from Bavaria. Had to send a specialty mechanic along with it. She did get the engine for free but not the labor. No small bill and three months without a car.