[tcbracing]

Quality Issue = Some people have it, some don't = Lots of Variation

Design Issue = Everyone has it = Low Variation

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by tcbracing

Quality Issue = Some people have it, some don't = Lots of Variation

Design Issue = Everyone has it = Low Variation

Wrong, the specific environmental circumstances the issue becomes prevalent is narrow enough that it would not be encountered by most drivers. That's the only reason not everyone is having the issue. Quality would be not everyone's car blowing cold air out the defrost vent on normal operation. I've not been in a 6th gen yet that didn't do it. So the design is flawed but effects are only apparent in those certain conditions. Which is why people can lessen the impact by changing the environment or prevent it by covering the vent.

[TMasticTB91]

Originally Posted by tcbracing

Anyone with a really bad one go to a dealer and drive another of the same model car to compare? I'm in the camp that this is a supplier process variation issue...

Yes.

I had a loaner Camaro for 2 1/2 weeks and it did the same exact thing. Same size fog circles, same weather conditions, etc...

It's simple science. If the temperature blowing on the windshield cools the windshield below the dew point temperature, condensation will form on the outside of the window. In areas that frequent dew points of 70+ degrees, cars that, for some stupid reason (looking at you Camaro team), are designed to always blow air out of the top vents, will be unable to utilize cooler A/C settings at the risk of condensation forming.

Turning up the temperature is the simple solution. However, if the dew point is say 74 and the air temperature is 75 (this represents a muggy, but typical, morning or evening in Florida), you have to have your A/C set to 75 or higher to keep the fogging at bay. At that temperature, relative to the outside temperature, the system is blowing not-cold air into the cabin, and significantly reduces occupant comfort.


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[tcbracing]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Wrong, the specific environmental circumstances the issue becomes prevalent is narrow enough that it would not be encountered by most drivers. That's the only reason not everyone is having the issue. Quality would be not everyone's car blowing cold air out the defrost vent on normal operation. I've not been in a 6th gen yet that didn't do it. So the design is flawed but affects are only apparent in those certain conditions. Which is why people can lessen the impact by changing the environment or prevent it by covering the vent.

The ONLY way to prove it is to take a statistically significant sample (30 random out of 100) of cars and test them under the exact climate conditions. If they all fogged up THE SAME AMOUNT - Design Issue. If any of them did not fog - Quality Issue. Design doesn't have VARIATION...

Granted, I have not done a statistically significant number of samples, but I have driven my car under the exact climate conditions as others here and not seen the excessive amount of fogging. There have been others on here as well who quote climate conditions that cause others to have issues, and they have no problems.

Someone should go to a dealer on a really humid day and drive a dozen vehicles and compare. A survey isn't going to tell anything unbiased.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by tcbracing

The ONLY way to prove it is to take a statistically significant sample (30 random out of 100) of cars and test them under the exact climate conditions. If they all fogged up THE SAME AMOUNT - Design Issue. If any of them did not fog - Quality Issue. Design doesn't have VARIATION...

Granted, I have not done a statistically significant number of samples, but I have driven my car under the exact climate conditions as others here and not seen the excessive amount of fogging. There have been others on here as well who quote climate conditions that cause others to have issues, and they have no problems.

Someone should go to a dealer on a really humid day and drive a dozen vehicles and compare. A survey isn't going to tell anything unbiased.

And that's exactly what needs to be done and GM has the facilities to do it. But looking at their own responses they don't seem to understand the issue exists under a specific set of conditions. Dew point, humidity, air temp, inside vehicle temp all play a factor and make any polls/samples in real world circumstances inconclusive at best. I'd love to hear a GM engineer explain why my wife's Fiesta doesn't blow air out the defrost except when set to it and my SS does.

[clanky]

Also have driven two other camaros and they all do it. Really is a safety concern IMO and it'll be bad when someone gets really hurt because they can't see through half their windshield. I got the same boxed automated crap reply too btw.

[JaxChris]

Still waiting for GM to post up who the certified testing official was, the test methodology they are attempting to apply to this issue and the location/date/time/atmospheric data from those tests.

GM is getting very dismissive here. They do realize at night, on a dark road, that this fogging comes up the glass without the driver able to realize it very much until it is too late -- a car comes around a bend head-on and their lights make the whole windshield go whitewash, blinding the driver.

At this point they realize the blower assembly and vent design chosen for the 2016+ Camaro is at fault and would be a costly replacement to correct this safety issue. They will instead play the odds and roll the dice again with buyer safety.

This means the question to GM now becomes: exactly how many people need to die needlessly due to visibility issues before GM decides to act or will they continue to wait until Congress gets on their ass before?

Looks like the only thing that companies run by idiots care about anymore is social media response. May need to organize a more visible response that highlights this issue to their followers and advise those on the fence against buying this car until GM addresses serious safety problems. Let the cars continue piling up on the lots, never moving. I'm tired of this.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

Still waiting for GM to post up who the certified testing official was, the test methodology they are attempting to apply to this issue and the location/date/time/atmospheric data from those tests.

GM is getting very dismissive here. They do realize at night, on a dark road, that this fogging comes up the glass without the driver able to realize it very much until it is too late -- a car comes around a bend head-on and their lights make the whole windshield go whitewash, blinding the driver.

At this point they realize the blower assembly and vent design chosen for the 2016+ Camaro is at fault and would be a costly replacement to correct this safety issue. They will instead play the odds and roll the dice again with buyer safety.

This means the question to GM now becomes: exactly how many people need to die needlessly due to visibility issues before GM decides to act or will they continue to wait until Congress gets on their ass before?

Looks like the only thing that companies run by idiots care about anymore is social media response. May need to organize a more visible response that highlights this issue to their followers and advise those on the fence against buying this car until GM addresses serious safety problems. Let the cars continue piling up on the lots, never moving. I'm tired of this.

Really?

[nbryant]

Man I love some of the rants on this site.

[Darth Martel]

GM will most likely not return to this thread, at least not to respond. The canned answer is as good as we'll get from them.

I had my car in the shop recently for this issue as well as an issue with the seat. I directed them to this thread and to the post several pages back that described a fix where they replace some modules and update programming. My service center pretty much echoed the canned response from GM we received in our PMs and posted here. However, in the interest of customer service, they decided to try the fix here and consider it warranty repair. Unfortunately, and expectedly, the fix did not change a thing. My window still fogged up this morning. The temperature was a bit lower than it has been and the same goes for the humidity but, I still experienced the fogging. It just wasn't as bad as when there's higher temperature and humidity. The only fix we're going to see for this issue is ones we'll see from within the community. GM is not going to do anything about this.

[glovo]

Got the 2016 rs this week and this been so annoying I tried everything, I live in Miami this even happen with the air off and the windows down sometimes. My 2015 camaro didn't do this

[TMasticTB91]

Originally Posted by glovo

Got the 2016 rs this week and this been so annoying I tried everything, I live in Miami this even happen with the air off and the windows down sometimes. My 2015 camaro didn't do this

Hi glovo, welcome to the forms.

There are some of us in the community looking to build a solution, but in the meantime, I'd recommend covering your defrost vent with a thick microfiber towel. I've been using http://www.microfibertech.com/Extra-...gsm-16x16.html in mornings/evenings/night when the dew point and air temperature are both in the 70s, which are the ideal conditions for the fogging to occur. The towel is a temporary solution, but if you fold it (I fold it once into a triangle) and tuck the towel between the dash and glass, it'll prevent any cold air from hitting your windshield. I've been doing this for the past week or so and it's worked great.

[Lurhq343]

Originally Posted by TMasticTB91

Hi glovo, welcome to the forms.

There are some of us in the community looking to build a solution, but in the meantime, I'd recommend covering your defrost vent with a thick microfiber towel. I've been using http://www.microfibertech.com/Extra-...gsm-16x16.html in mornings/evenings/night when the dew point and air temperature are both in the 70s, which are the ideal conditions for the fogging to occur. The towel is a temporary solution, but if you fold it (I fold it once into a triangle) and tuck the towel between the dash and glass, it'll prevent any cold air from hitting your windshield. I've been doing this for the past week or so and it's worked great.

In Miami as well. This is my second Gen 6 Camaro, I returned the last one due to all its problems. But both the first and second one fog up.

[Branight]

Very aggravating to spend so much money on a car and for it to have such an obvious and annoying flaw. Did they not do any quality control when they were building prototypes?