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Old 06-05-2019, 10:08 PM   #15
metros11
 
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So on that track faster by a second on the same tires. I bet it still wins with stock GoodYears.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:55 AM   #16
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I have watched a few of their videos, honestly enjoy them. A few takeaways from the track video:
SLE was 1.2 seconds faster around the track than the PP2. Pretty big margin on a short track, unfortunately. I'm sure the Cup 2s helped compared to the stock SLE tires.
PP2 was 1+ seconds faster around the track than an M2 Competition.
Driver said the PP2 felt more planted, while the chassis of the SLE felt stiffer.
Steering feel was better in the SLE.
Neither had any body roll.
PP2 did not overheat after 4 hot laps (with the first of 4 being a "fairly hot" warm up lap). He said the tranny and diff. temperatures were fine.
Driver said if he were going to chose one to race on the track again, it would be the PP2 even though it was slower around the track, he said it was more fun than the SLE.

Good stuff. Good times to be a Pony car owner. Thanks for posting.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:17 PM   #17
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I have watched a few of their videos, honestly enjoy them. A few takeaways from the track video:
SLE was 1.2 seconds faster around the track than the PP2. Pretty big margin on a short track, unfortunately. I'm sure the Cup 2s helped compared to the stock SLE tires.
PP2 was 1+ seconds faster around the track than an M2 Competition.
Driver said the PP2 felt more planted, while the chassis of the SLE felt stiffer.
Steering feel was better in the SLE.
Neither had any body roll.
PP2 did not overheat after 4 hot laps (with the first of 4 being a "fairly hot" warm up lap). He said the tranny and diff. temperatures were fine.
Driver said if he were going to chose one to race on the track again, it would be the PP2 even though it was slower around the track, he said it was more fun than the SLE.

Good stuff. Good times to be a Pony car owner. Thanks for posting.
With the insane performance these cars offer, is it even fair to call them Pony cars anymore? They have come so far!
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:26 PM   #18
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PP2 did not overheat after 4 hot laps (with the first of 4 being a "fairly hot" warm up lap). He said the tranny and diff. temperatures were fine.
Those 4 laps added up to 5-6 minutes of track time, in 70* weather. I think if they did 15+ minutes of hot laps (average HPDE session) they may have run into some issues.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:47 AM   #19
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Curious if he would've thought it was too stiff with suspension overridden to to sport mode
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium View Post
I have watched a few of their videos, honestly enjoy them. A few takeaways from the track video:
SLE was 1.2 seconds faster around the track than the PP2. Pretty big margin on a short track, unfortunately. I'm sure the Cup 2s helped compared to the stock SLE tires.
PP2 was 1+ seconds faster around the track than an M2 Competition.
Driver said the PP2 felt more planted, while the chassis of the SLE felt stiffer.
Steering feel was better in the SLE.
Neither had any body roll.
PP2 did not overheat after 4 hot laps (with the first of 4 being a "fairly hot" warm up lap). He said the tranny and diff. temperatures were fine.
Driver said if he were going to chose one to race on the track again, it would be the PP2 even though it was slower around the track, he said it was more fun than the SLE.

Good stuff. Good times to be a Pony car owner. Thanks for posting.
I’m thrilled that they preferred the Camaro’s steering wheel.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:55 PM   #21
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Those 4 laps added up to 5-6 minutes of track time, in 70* weather. I think if they did 15+ minutes of hot laps (average HPDE session) they may have run into some issues.
The diff warning issues typically come about just after 15 min of track time.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:00 PM   #22
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Driver said if he were going to chose one to race on the track again, it would be the PP2 even though it was slower around the track, he said it was more fun than the SLE.
Quite frankly he said this to give the Mustang some kind of a 'win'. They're a car channel, they're not going to completely turn off the Mustang audience. Same way Motor Trend did their 'mile run' in the desert, to make sure Mustang PP1 won something. In their previous show where they compared both cars on the street, they both chose the Camaro as the one they'd rather drive. So anything outside of pure data can be taken with a grain of salt. I like the Mustang, and I'm glad to see that Ford tried with the PP2. But it's another street car masked as a track machine trying to chase the 1LE. I wish these guys had the balls to compare the GT350 to the 1LE. Hopefully they're still small enough to do it, because the big publications are too afraid of Ford to try.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:08 AM   #23
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Quite frankly he said this to give the Mustang some kind of a 'win'. They're a car channel, they're not going to completely turn off the Mustang audience. Same way Motor Trend did their 'mile run' in the desert, to make sure Mustang PP1 won something. In their previous show where they compared both cars on the street, they both chose the Camaro as the one they'd rather drive. So anything outside of pure data can be taken with a grain of salt. I like the Mustang, and I'm glad to see that Ford tried with the PP2. But it's another street car masked as a track machine trying to chase the 1LE. I wish these guys had the balls to compare the GT350 to the 1LE. Hopefully they're still small enough to do it, because the big publications are too afraid of Ford to try.
I agree. The Mustang was given a participation trophy. Earlier, they said the Mustang’s steering was vague, chassis not tight... “The Camaro is the car”. Then they give it a symbolic win?

The GT350 vs 1LE is the match up we’d all like to see but it’s been deliberately avoided as to not embarrass Ford. This whole generation has been match ups to avoid exposing how far behind the S550 is.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:18 AM   #24
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I agree. The Mustang was given a participation trophy. Earlier, they said the Mustang’s steering was vague, chassis not tight... “The Camaro is the car”. Then they give it a symbolic win?

The GT350 vs 1LE is the match up we’d all like to see but it’s been deliberately avoided as to not embarrass Ford. This whole generation has been match ups to avoid exposing how far behind the S550 is.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a Camaro 1LE on non stock tires competing against a Mustang on stock tires, and the review still preferred the Mustang in the end, as many others have as well. On stock tires the times would have likely been very similar.

Each day you get into your car you are not setting out to set a record track time, this is where the Camaro continues to miss the mark.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:44 AM   #25
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a Camaro 1LE on non stock tires competing against a Mustang on stock tires, and the review still preferred the Mustang in the end, as many others have as well. On stock tires the times would have likely been very similar.

Each day you get into your car you are not setting out to set a record track time, this is where the Camaro continues to miss the mark.
1.)
The Sport Cup 2's and the Goodyear Supercar 3's aren't miles off of each other in performance. 180tw vs 220tw. CERTAINLY not over a second on a minute long track!

2.)
The complaint on the Camaro is it was too stiff on track. Bottom line is that could have been solved with 4 clicks on the touch screen to override suspension to Sport or even Tour mode. Not the reviewer's fault. Cars have absurd amounts of features nowadays, and its impossible to expect them to know every setting on every car.

3.)
No one is saying you need to set a lap record every time out. Also no one says you have to be the fastest to 60mph every time either, but we still compare 0-60 & 1/4 times. The track times are to provide evidence of which car is more capable with as many variables removed as possible. Lets be honest its about bragging rights too. We aren't talking about Camry vs Accord here. These are silly unnecessary sports cars. The times illustrate that the Camaro is just more capable than the Mustang.

4.)
I have no problem with someone not liking the Camaro. I would love to have the digital display on the Mustang and the additional outward visibility certainly wouldn't be unappreciated. However, I purchased the car to fill a lot of roles. It had to be daily driveable, comfortable for long interstate drives, and be fun for the Mountains/AutoX/Track. I needed it to be capable of doing those things while retaining a warranty and not requiring a myriad of modifications to stand up to those tasks.

I'm comfortable that I chose the right car for my circumstances, but I still appreciate that Ford made a more sporty version of the Mustang to compete with my car. Healthy competition makes these cars improve at a faster rate!
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:53 AM   #26
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a Camaro 1LE on non stock tires competing against a Mustang on stock tires, and the review still preferred the Mustang in the end, as many others have as well. On stock tires the times would have likely been very similar.

Each day you get into your car you are not setting out to set a record track time, this is where the Camaro continues to miss the mark.
You’re missing the point bro, these guys are all hardcore racers. hotlap has hundreds of passes down the track and many track days in his car and he can post the slips and PDR video to back it up. Blaqwhole? That guy is a legend around here, pretty sure he holds the record for a bone stock ZL1 “while not really trying”

These guys are so hardcore they drift their way through the Dunkin Donuts drive-thru. They can feel the difference of 1 second on a road course while sitting at a stop light. They drive a car that embarrasses supercars while the Mustang can only manage to embarrass them slightly less.

These fellas live and breathe performance every second of the day, their knuckles are white when they hold a slice of pizza and they sleep better at night knowing that the car they own is capable of edging out a win at race tracks they will never visit.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a Camaro 1LE on non stock tires competing against a Mustang on stock tires, and the review still preferred the Mustang in the end, as many others have as well. On stock tires the times would have likely been very similar.

Each day you get into your car you are not setting out to set a record track time, this is where the Camaro continues to miss the mark.
Well, both reviewers said they preferred the Camaro on the street...

Plus, on the street, to me at least, this is where the Mustang misses the mark big time. I got a chance to drive a friend's PP1, and it's a great car and all, but in comparison, the seating position and driving dynamics reminds me of the Maxima rental I drove for a week (which is a nice car by the way), except for the exhaust sound and when you rev the engine out. Once up in the RPM range, the car wakes up and now seems more like a muscle car, but then the suspension starts to show it's sloppyness.

Again, I love the car, I think the outside is beautiful, but even my buddy, who is a huge Mustang guy, said the Camaro's driving dynamics show within driving 10 feet down the road. Instant power anywhere in the RPM band, instantaneous turn-in, amazing steering precision, great steering feel, etc... The mustang's steering is a little bit vague even going slow, push it, and it gets worse.

The one thing I liked better in the Mustang is the initial brake bite. I don't like how GM cars seem like the brake pedal is dampened. The Camaro stops on a dime and has great modulation, but the pedal feel is better in the Mustang.

Now, if you are talking about street driving to go get groceries, yes, the trunk opening is much better on the Mustang, and it is less claustrophobic for sure. But on a windy back road, no comparison, the Camaro is a laser scalpel of precision and power, and the Mustang still has a touch of that muscle car feel (I can really feel the back end of the car flopping over in the turns, and you have to adjust the steering mid turn).

You can't go wrong either way, it's just a matter of what you want to do with the car, and what your preferences are.

BUT, I can't wait to see what the GT500 brings in terms of chassis dynamics. The GT350 was awesome in this regard (I never drove one, but based off of all the reviews), so I expect the GT500 to be on that level too, they have really been working a long time on this, so it's got to be right...
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by mjk3888 View Post
1.)
The Sport Cup 2's and the Goodyear Supercar 3's aren't miles off of each other in performance. 180tw vs 220tw. CERTAINLY not over a second on a minute long track!

2.)
The complaint on the Camaro is it was too stiff on track. Bottom line is that could have been solved with 4 clicks on the touch screen to override suspension to Sport or even Tour mode. Not the reviewer's fault. Cars have absurd amounts of features nowadays, and its impossible to expect them to know every setting on every car.

3.)
No one is saying you need to set a lap record every time out. Also no one says you have to be the fastest to 60mph every time either, but we still compare 0-60 & 1/4 times. The track times are to provide evidence of which car is more capable with as many variables removed as possible. Lets be honest its about bragging rights too. We aren't talking about Camry vs Accord here. These are silly unnecessary sports cars. The times illustrate that the Camaro is just more capable than the Mustang.

4.)
I have no problem with someone not liking the Camaro. I would love to have the digital display on the Mustang and the additional outward visibility certainly wouldn't be unappreciated. However, I purchased the car to fill a lot of roles. It had to be daily driveable, comfortable for long interstate drives, and be fun for the Mountains/AutoX/Track. I needed it to be capable of doing those things while retaining a warranty and not requiring a myriad of modifications to stand up to those tasks.

I'm comfortable that I chose the right car for my circumstances, but I still appreciate that Ford made a more sporty version of the Mustang to compete with my car. Healthy competition makes these cars improve at a faster rate!
All valid points with the exception of #1 ...People on this site would be up in arms if the Mustang was allowed a tire swap... Trofeo R’s on a GT350 ...Camaro5 would have melted down.

They should have run the car on the tires it comes with.
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