Knowledgeable ZL1 posters on mods cost. How much??

2018 ZL1 HBM · 11-14-2020, 05:25 PM

High Flow Cold Air System

180* Thermostat

High Temperature spark plug wire insulators

Complete professional installation

Custom Street/Dyno ECU Calibration

Color Print out of before & after dyno results

Additionally.......95mm throttle body, 1 7/8inch headers, pulley upgrade.... On top of what is listed above, How much should this cost?

Also....The difference between all of that, and all of that - the pulley upgrade would be about 1400 dollars. Is the pulley worth the extra 1400? How many horses stand to be gained with the pulley compared to everything else without the pulley? Speed shop says if I do headers without the pulley, I will lose some boost. Does it make the headers not worth it?

Thanks in advance for the opinions/info......

Juiced1 · 11-14-2020, 05:52 PM

The install for the wire insulators and intake shouldn't cost you much. Honestly, we wouldn't charge for that stuff if we were doing anything else like headers or something. You won't need a tune for just an intake but if anyone local to us we will do before and after runs for you at no charge.

If you added headers and a throttle body we would probably charge $400 for the install and $500 on the dyno tune.

A pulley is an easy 50rwhp. Headers will lower pressure but the airflow is still there. Headers will make the engine flow better and that reduces the internal pressure (a good thing) and it makes adding more boost a safer venture.

Our stage 1 package includes an intake, headers, an overdrive ATI balancer and we've recently added a LT5 ported throttle body. The package costs $2250 for the parts and we charge $3350 installed and tuned.

2018 ZL1 HBM · 11-14-2020, 06:12 PM

So you are saying that the loss in boost I get by doing headers without a pulley does not make it a waste to do the headers alone? The headers would still be worth it even without the pulley? Figure the question with everything else listed being done....

I am in New Jersey, If I hired you guys, I would need a complete install....Do you work with any shops around me? If so how would it work, would you ship direct to the shop, and have me go there?

Gunkk · 11-15-2020, 10:02 AM

Here's an opinion or three...

The design of LT4 engines is surprisingly well-balanced. Almost everything bolted to the long block has about 10% or so headroom designed into it.

You will get no gains without a tune, and you can actually make it worse with some no-tune bolt-ons.

The quality of the tuner and tune matters more than the bolt-on. Find the best and most-experienced tuner you can get to and pay them well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2018 ZL1 HBM

Speed shop says if I do headers without the pulley, I will lose some boost. Does it make the headers not worth it?

Understanding "why" is important here. Why does boost drop with headers?

Because engines are air pumps: suck squeeze bang blow. All 4 steps matter.
With headers and high-flow primary cats, the exhaust flow is improved. Backpressure is reduced in the cylinders and to a lesser extent upstream in the manifold. So total air flow through the engine is increased as is the overall performance ceiling of the engine. You can get more air into the cylinders if they're not pushing back on the supercharger. You also reduce your intake air temps which allows more timing advance (less knock retard) and thus more power.

If do all the other mods and you don't do headers (or more correctly if you skip something and don't keep the entire system balanced), you often can't get the full potential out of the other mods. Ever put your hand over the outlet of a vacuum cleaner? How hard does it suck when it can't blow?

Any shop that cannot or does not explain this to you up front is not worth your business. This is because either a) they don't know and therefore won't understand how to properly tune the car, or b) they are lazy and don't want to do the extra work on the headers and certainly won't help you out down the road should you run into any problems.

Approx cost:
$2.5k for 50-75rwhp (can be done without headers & cats)
$5k for 150rwhp (must do intake, pulley, fuel, headers & cats)

Much above this you're going to be at $20k+ with cooling system, porting, cam, trans tune, tires, etc. and stuff will start breaking if you're hard on it (racing).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2018 ZL1 HBM

I am in New Jersey

There are a few good folks in the northeast with Camaro experience. Ted Jannety is in CT. Complete Street Performance is in PA.

Take your time to shop around and educate yourself before burning a hole in your wallet that you may later regret.

KingLT1 · 11-15-2020, 10:35 AM

This is my opinion on how I would do builds in stages. The stage 1 package referenced in the OP seems like a waste of money. Thermostat, plug wires, and CAI is fine for stockish power levels.

Stage 1 If you have E85 in your area install a flex fuel sensor kit and get a tune. 70+ whp gain for not a lot of money. (1000.00-1200.00 tuned. M6 cars will be less then A10)

Stage 2 Headers, Rotofab, Thermostat, JMS pump booster, Flex fuel sensor. +125whp

Stage 3 Maggie 2650, 103mm tb, ToohighPSI port injection plates, MAF fusion controller, low-side, Headers, Rotofab Big Gulp, Thermostat, Flex fuel sensor, 1 heat range colder spark plug. +250whp

Stage 4 Heads, Cam, Dod delete, + the Stage 3 mods. 350+ whp

*Once at stage 3 or higher you should probably consider addressing some things in the drive line and suspension to prevent failure depending on use.

2018 ZL1 HBM · 11-15-2020, 12:06 PM

First let me say I appreciate you explaining all this to me, and also say that the tuning shop did give pretty thorough info also....

My only 2 real questions for you are these.......When looking at my original thread, what horsepower difference there is in doing everything I listed, as compared to doing everything I listed except the pulley upgrade. And If I do everything but the pulley upgrade, (As I see you explained everything needs to be done synergistically to be the best) does it compromise the whole package so much (Because of the loss of boost with headers and no pulley upgrade) as to make it not worth it?

Also would doing everything listed, be worth an all inclusive price of around 7k?

CW3SF · 11-15-2020, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2018 ZL1 HBM

First let me say I appreciate you explaining all this to me, and also say that the tuning shop did give pretty thorough info also....

My only 2 real questions for you are these.......When looking at my original thread, what horsepower difference there is in doing everything I listed, as compared to doing everything I listed except the pulley upgrade. And If I do everything but the pulley upgrade, (As I see you explained everything needs to be done synergistically to be the best) does it compromise the whole package so much (Because of the loss of boost with headers and no pulley upgrade) as to make it not worth it?

Also would doing everything listed, be worth an all inclusive price of around 7k?

Sounds like you are thinking that the lower boost pressure with headers means lower horsepower. That is not the case. Even though your peak boost psi is slightly less with the better exhaust, your car will make more horsepower because it’s moving more air. Headers and green cats or no cats will always make more power than OEM. Increasing the boost with a smaller pulley on top of that will make even more. You don’t HAVE to do both.

2018 ZL1 HBM · 11-15-2020, 03:40 PM

Thank you for the info, and yes, you were exactly right about what I was thinking.....

EvilZL · 11-15-2020, 04:11 PM

Some good info here!!

I will be following your thread/build

2018 ZL1 HBM · 11-15-2020, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilZL

Some good info here!!

I will be following your thread/build

2018 ZL1 HBM · 11-15-2020, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CW3SF

Sounds like you are thinking that the lower boost pressure with headers means lower horsepower. That is not the case. Even though your peak boost psi is slightly less with the better exhaust, your car will make more horsepower because it’s moving more air. Headers and green cats or no cats will always make more power than OEM. Increasing the boost with a smaller pulley on top of that will make even more. You don’t HAVE to do both.

Markoz28 · 11-16-2020, 07:01 AM

A 7k budget can set you up nicely. This is what I would do:

-Ported SC (increase hp as well as lose restriction, lower IATs, and decrease boost a bit. You will not lose power from decrease in boost but be more efficient)
-103 throttle body
-rotofab Big Gulp
-kooks headers with or without high flow cats (I would go without)
-NGK plugs 1 step colder with heat sleeves
-taylor wires (or could stay stock as they are fine)
-ATI balancer and 9.17 pulley (this will obviously increase boost but since the SC is ported it will not create as much heat)
-dyno and street tune

This should put you between 680-700whp. Plenty of power.

11-14-2020, 05:25 PM	#1
2018 ZL1 HBM Account Suspended Drives: 2018 ZL1 A10 Garnet Red Tintcoat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: NJ Posts: 50	Knowledgeable ZL1 posters on mods cost. How much?? High Flow Cold Air System 180* Thermostat High Temperature spark plug wire insulators Complete professional installation Custom Street/Dyno ECU Calibration Color Print out of before & after dyno results Additionally.......95mm throttle body, 1 7/8inch headers, pulley upgrade.... On top of what is listed above, How much should this cost? Also....The difference between all of that, and all of that - the pulley upgrade would be about 1400 dollars. Is the pulley worth the extra 1400? How many horses stand to be gained with the pulley compared to everything else without the pulley? Speed shop says if I do headers without the pulley, I will lose some boost. Does it make the headers not worth it? Thanks in advance for the opinions/info......

11-15-2020, 10:35 AM	#5
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,799	This is my opinion on how I would do builds in stages. The stage 1 package referenced in the OP seems like a waste of money. Thermostat, plug wires, and CAI is fine for stockish power levels. Stage 1 If you have E85 in your area install a flex fuel sensor kit and get a tune. 70+ whp gain for not a lot of money. (1000.00-1200.00 tuned. M6 cars will be less then A10) Stage 2 Headers, Rotofab, Thermostat, JMS pump booster, Flex fuel sensor. +125whp Stage 3 Maggie 2650, 103mm tb, ToohighPSI port injection plates, MAF fusion controller, low-side, Headers, Rotofab Big Gulp, Thermostat, Flex fuel sensor, 1 heat range colder spark plug. +250whp Stage 4 Heads, Cam, Dod delete, + the Stage 3 mods. 350+ whp Once at stage 3 or higher you should probably consider addressing some things in the drive line and suspension to prevent failure depending on use. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8* Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

11-14-2020, 05:52 PM	#2
Juiced1 Account Suspended Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: St. Charles, IL Posts: 18,663	The install for the wire insulators and intake shouldn't cost you much. Honestly, we wouldn't charge for that stuff if we were doing anything else like headers or something. You won't need a tune for just an intake but if anyone local to us we will do before and after runs for you at no charge. If you added headers and a throttle body we would probably charge $400 for the install and $500 on the dyno tune. A pulley is an easy 50rwhp. Headers will lower pressure but the airflow is still there. Headers will make the engine flow better and that reduces the internal pressure (a good thing) and it makes adding more boost a safer venture. Our stage 1 package includes an intake, headers, an overdrive ATI balancer and we've recently added a LT5 ported throttle body. The package costs $2250 for the parts and we charge $3350 installed and tuned.

11-14-2020, 06:12 PM	#3
2018 ZL1 HBM Account Suspended Drives: 2018 ZL1 A10 Garnet Red Tintcoat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: NJ Posts: 50	So you are saying that the loss in boost I get by doing headers without a pulley does not make it a waste to do the headers alone? The headers would still be worth it even without the pulley? Figure the question with everything else listed being done.... I am in New Jersey, If I hired you guys, I would need a complete install....Do you work with any shops around me? If so how would it work, would you ship direct to the shop, and have me go there?

11-15-2020, 12:06 PM	#6
2018 ZL1 HBM Account Suspended Drives: 2018 ZL1 A10 Garnet Red Tintcoat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: NJ Posts: 50	First let me say I appreciate you explaining all this to me, and also say that the tuning shop did give pretty thorough info also.... My only 2 real questions for you are these.......When looking at my original thread, what horsepower difference there is in doing everything I listed, as compared to doing everything I listed except the pulley upgrade. And If I do everything but the pulley upgrade, (As I see you explained everything needs to be done synergistically to be the best) does it compromise the whole package so much (Because of the loss of boost with headers and no pulley upgrade) as to make it not worth it? Also would doing everything listed, be worth an all inclusive price of around 7k?

11-15-2020, 03:40 PM	#8
2018 ZL1 HBM Account Suspended Drives: 2018 ZL1 A10 Garnet Red Tintcoat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: NJ Posts: 50	Thank you for the info, and yes, you were exactly right about what I was thinking.....

11-15-2020, 04:11 PM	#9
EvilZL Drives: 2018 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Michigan Posts: 251	Some good info here!! I will be following your thread/build

11-16-2020, 07:01 AM	#12
Markoz28 Drives: 18 ZL1 nightfall grey A10 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,527	A 7k budget can set you up nicely. This is what I would do: -Ported SC (increase hp as well as lose restriction, lower IATs, and decrease boost a bit. You will not lose power from decrease in boost but be more efficient) -103 throttle body -rotofab Big Gulp -kooks headers with or without high flow cats (I would go without) -NGK plugs 1 step colder with heat sleeves -taylor wires (or could stay stock as they are fine) -ATI balancer and 9.17 pulley (this will obviously increase boost but since the SC is ported it will not create as much heat) -dyno and street tune This should put you between 680-700whp. Plenty of power.

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