[Osbornsm]

Question of the day


For the Alpha platform, let's say... How much of a decreasing investment is horsepower vs lap time. (provided STIG driver)



On the Road Course - Lap Time board, the ZLE's are usually 2 sec a lap faster, than the SS 1LE's, which i hope are ahead of the V6's.
The ZL1 is a more fair comparison of the SS 1LE, but for the life of me i can't find lap times for a stock ZL1.

My Question
At what point does additional horsepower decrease lap times.




Discuss

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

Question of the day


For the Alpha platform, let's say... How much of a decreasing investment is horsepower vs lap time. (provided STIG driver)



On the Road Course - Lap Time board, the ZLE's are usually 2 sec a lap faster, than the SS 1LE's, which i hope are ahead of the V6's.


My Question
At what point does additional horsepower decrease lap times.




Discuss

ZLE's are definitely faster than 2 seconds, they gain at least 2 seconds just on tires alone, assuming both are on stock tires.

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

ZLE's are definitely faster than 2 seconds, they gain at least 2 seconds just on tires alone, assuming both are on stock tires.

I was using Gingerman as a reference track.

• An SS 1LE is 1:41 (101 sec)
• A ZLE is 1:39 (99 sec)

IDK ?

[khcoaching]

I have data on this between my car and a GT3RS.....it's a lot. Standby and I'll get something posted up.

Ken

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

I was using Gingerman as a reference track.

• An SS 1LE is 1:41 (101 sec)
• A ZLE is 1:39 (99 sec)

IDK ?

I think the car and driver laptimes are probably a good one to go by.

Over the span of 4.1 miles the ZL1 1LE is 9 seconds faster than a SS 1LE. If I had to guess I would say 3-4 seconds of that are tires, the 5-6 others are power-to-weight/suspension.

[khcoaching]

The OP's question on HP is different than the using the rest of the car - tires, suspension, etc. the entire package adds up. @christian1le is pretty spot on the overall differences between the SLE vs ZLE.

At the Ridge, which has the option of a 140+ front straight with a stock SS 1LE, the times I have driven a few ZLEs, the top speed wasn't crazy higher (146-148) but it sure got there quicker.

Here are 2 GPS speed graphs of the Ridge -

#1 - GT3Rs on slicks vs my stock tune/engine SS 1LE using the Chicane version - I added up the entire lap and the extra acceleration is worth 1.5 seconds, on the slower Ridge config.



#2 2022 M4c all stock vs my stock tune/engine SSS 1LE on the NON Chicane version.



Bottom line, HP makes a pretty damn big difference and the SS, while making "good" HP, is actually pretty slow. I can barely pull a tuned Civic R up the long front straight. Even the ZLE isn't all that fast, compared to a GT3RS.

Ken

[Msquared]

It depends on the track, of course: some reward power more than others. But in general, I agree that power all by itself makes a significant difference. The ZLE comparison kind of a tough one because the rest of the car is also very different to an SS 1LE. A "regular" ZL1 would be a better comparison, but of course it's carrying a big chunk of extra weight over the nose too the ZLE seems to lighter, but still a bit heavier than the SS 1LE).

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by khcoaching

I have data on this between my car and a GT3RS.....it's a lot. Standby and I'll get something posted up.


Bottom line, HP makes a pretty damn big difference and the SS, while making "good" HP, is actually pretty slow. I can barely pull a tuned Civic R up the long front straight. Even the ZLE isn't all that fast, compared to a GT3RS.


Ken

Thank you for the insightful data, i love to quantify this sh*t.


The 911 is about what... 700 lbs lighter than an SS? That's awesome for it's power/weight ratio! and i imagine you can see out of one.


With this thinking, the 911 would respond better to power adders because it weighs less, right?



P.S.

I'm quite comfortable with my SS 1LE performance.... in case there was any question.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

If I had to guess I would say 3-4 seconds of that are tires, the 5-6 others are power-to-weight/suspension.

Front and rear aero is also better on the ZLE vs. the SS 1LE which should have a cumulative benefit all of the way down the straights even if it only allows entering the straights just slightly faster.

[cvp33]

I like using the Lightning Lap times. Especially telling:

CORVETTE

SRay = 2:53.8
GS = 2:47.1
Z06 = 2:44.6
ZR1 = 2:39.5

CAMARO

ZL1 1LE A10 = 2:45.0
ZL1 1LE M6 = 2:45.7
ZL1 = 2:50.1
Z28 = 2:50.9
SS 1LE = 2:54.8

The 1LE gains over standard ZL1 ‘s are clearly chassis tuning vs HP. However the nearly 10 seconds 1LE vs 1LE are HP.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

[Msquared]

The 1LE gains over standard ZL1 ‘s are clearly chassis tuning vs HP.

And wheels/tires: the ZL1 comes with the same SC3 tires the SS 1LE gets, whereas the ZLE gets SC3Rs that are a lot grippier and are probably worth a couple seconds on those Lightning Laps all by themselves. Tires are a way bigger factor in lap times than most people think, and yet they are the first thing anyone who tracks or competes in a car changes. That's why most of these magazine comparisons are dumb: the cars with cheater tires the SC3R will walk away even if the rest of the car isn't any better.

However the nearly 10 seconds 1LE vs 1LE are HP.

Partly, but the SS 1LE has the same chassis tuning and wheels/tires as the ZL1. The ZL1 is basically just a supercharged SS 1LE. So the 10-second difference between the SS 1LE and the ZLE is power, chassis tuning, and wheels/tires.

The closest thing to a comparison of two very similar cars but with a big power difference is the SS 1LE vs the ZL1. It's not absolutely perfect, since the ZL1 still carries significant extra weight over the nose, and also I don't know that they were tested on the same day (track and ambient conditions, etc.) However, it's very fair to say that the extra 195hp is 100% responsible for the 4- second improvement over the SS 1LE.

[RUQWIKR]

Originally Posted by cvp33

I like using the Lightning Lap times. Especially telling:

CORVETTE

SRay = 2:53.8
GS = 2:47.1
Z06 = 2:44.6
ZR1 = 2:39.5

CAMARO

ZL1 1LE A10 = 2:45.0
ZL1 1LE M6 = 2:45.7
ZL1 = 2:50.1
Z28 = 2:50.9
SS 1LE = 2:54.8

The 1LE gains over standard ZL1 ‘s are clearly chassis tuning vs HP. However the nearly 10 seconds 1LE vs 1LE are HP.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

I would say the better comparison is SS 1LE to ZL1 they used since they have the same FE4 suspension and tires. However, the ZL1 used was an automatic. I would love to have them run a SS 1LE auto that's now available that wasn't at the time, or if they had run the regular ZL1 that day with a manual.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-2017-feature/

[Badmojo]

VIR Grand Course is going to favor cars with higher HP, so slower speed tracks will see a smaller differential. It's a good set of reference points, but doesn't necessarily translate to tracks with shorter straights.



It can also be further exaggerated at speedway road courses like Charlotte Motor Speedway or Daytona.



Interesting discussion for sure!


Edit: I just pulled my average mph from Charlotte ROVAL (1 bus stop) and it was 93.36 MPH vs 93.48 MPH for VIR Full (not Grand)

Originally Posted by cvp33

I like using the Lightning Lap times. Especially telling:

CORVETTE

SRay = 2:53.8
GS = 2:47.1
Z06 = 2:44.6
ZR1 = 2:39.5

CAMARO

ZL1 1LE A10 = 2:45.0
ZL1 1LE M6 = 2:45.7
ZL1 = 2:50.1
Z28 = 2:50.9
SS 1LE = 2:54.8

The 1LE gains over standard ZL1 ‘s are clearly chassis tuning vs HP. However the nearly 10 seconds 1LE vs 1LE are HP.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

[RUQWIKR]

VIR Full is even more of a power track over Grand since you don't go in the infield and have even a longer back straight before Rollercoaster.