[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Hulkamaniac

During last week's snow storm here in Iowa, my 2019 1LT performed pretty good considering it has its stock 20" Goodyear All Season tires.

However, it didn't perform as well as my old 2013 1LS that had its stock 18" BF Goodrich All Season tires several years ago during my trip to Indiana in a blizzard.

I traded off my 2019 1LT for a 2020 Charger GT with All-Wheel drive. I pick it up this coming Tuesday and from what I've read about this car in numerous reviews, it's a beast in the snow.

My wife and I have pondered why GM hasn't brought all-wheel drive to its Chevy line-up of cars? The Corvette, Impala, and Malibu could definitely benefit from it.

I'd love to see an all-wheel drive Camaro, but I can understand they're killing the Camaro(a dog gone shame, but you have to admit the design team needs some fresh blood and GM needs better/more colors). I'd trade in the Charger if GM brought out an all-wheel drive Camaro.

If Porsche, Lamborghini, etc can do it, why won't GM?

What are your thoughts?

It's easier to make a case for adding understeer to a mid- or rear-engine car, which is what tends to happen when you ask the wheels that steer to also carry some of the acceleration duty. And it's already been hinted that AWD and low ground clearance are at in at least mild contradiction with each other.

Raise an AWD Camaro up so that AWD make more sense, and you'd be a big part of the way to building an E/28, minus the EV part. Maybe be careful what you wish for . . .


Norm

[pauly1119]

I have a Infinity Q50S thats my drive to work car that is all wheel drive with 400hp and that car is so easy to get to 60 in its full potential so yes I would buy a all wheel drive Camaro. This is my first all wheel drive car other then my trucks Ive had over the years and its nice in the rain as well.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It's easier to make a case for adding understeer to a mid- or rear-engine car, which is what tends to happen when you ask the wheels that steer to also carry some of the acceleration duty. And it's already been hinted that AWD and low ground clearance are at in at least mild contradiction with each other.

Raise an AWD Camaro up so that AWD make more sense, and you'd be a big part of the way to building an E/28, minus the EV part. Maybe be careful what you wish for . . .


Norm

For winters including weekly nuisance snow/ice, hills & road shale, not a heavy snow vehicle. Yeah, it's a nose weight trade-off, and the awd ATS sits a bit higher.

Didn't click on the E/28 thread. EV - Camaro anything is a non-starter. I can imagine the spin b.s./insinuations going on there: 'Practicality won't mean bloated pig.' 'EV battery doesn't mean heavy pig.' 'Audio system noise can replace a love of engines.' 'This is the only way you can get awd.' 'It's this or you get stuck with Prius copies.' 'The big wealth/media/gov/EPA works for what's best and doesn't lie.'

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

I think AWD would be a cool option. At this point, as long as it has a V8 option and prices don't keep getting even more ridiculous, I'll be happy.

I have an AWD car. The only "mods" I've done to it (if you could even call them mods, as it's just been minor tuning stuff so far) have been to loosen up the handling a little, to intentionally make it feel closer to RWD. AWD feels a bit too understeerish to me.


Norm

[NeverDie]

That's a weird blanket to toss over every AWD system, especially now that we have rear-biased torque vectoring.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

That's a weird blanket to toss over every AWD system, especially now that we have rear-biased torque vectoring.

I'm giving what's been my experience with two AWD cars. I doubt there was much difference in the AWDs mechanically, but the cars were of somewhat different performance intent (different suspension tuning).

It's also a matter of physics - as soon as you start adding acceleration traction requirements to cornering requirements at some steer angle, you'll need to run the front tires at slightly higher slip angles to maintain the same cornering grip, which is the basic definition of added understeer.


I'm also hesitant about handing off understeer mitigation to still more electronics - if only because their calibrations will be optimized for the OE tire and wheel package rather than any upgraded tire & wheel setup. Never mind that I'm philosophically opposed to the use of electronics to make the driver think he's better than he really is (not the same thing as saving his a$$ in an emergency that's outside what his skill set can cope with).


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

I left something out in the above post . . .

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm also hesitant about handing off understeer mitigation to still more electronics - if only because their calibrations will be optimized for the OE tire and wheel package and to suit corporate standards aimed at protecting the less skilled rather than any upgraded tire & wheel setup. Never mind that I'm philosophically opposed to the use of electronics to make the driver think he's better than he really is (not the same thing as saving his a$$ in an emergency that's outside what his skill set can cope with).

Building a car that's inherently closer to neutral-handling (mechanically) is almost certainly going to mean more aggressively-acting stability and other electronic controls, as they'd have less time to act once they determined that they had to act at all.


Norm

[dpevans]

Accept the fact that in 15 years or less >90% of all cars sold will be all electric and all wheel drive. No reason for an all wheel drive on the current gen unless it improves track times. The reason the Charger can be AWD it's built as a family sedan not a sports car.

[robertd33]

i would love to have a car that kept up with technology instead of "the old times".
fact: awd is better.

[willzilla]

I enjoyed the AWD in my 2017 Subaru WRX (with full bolt ons and on e85).. Had a solid 375awhp (and car weighed like 3300lbs)... Only issue with AWD is launching the car can be pretty brutal to the driveline.. Lol. v8 camaro would need a beefy beastly AWD system to handle the power. Probably add 400lbs to the car.

[arpad_m]

Whether we like or not, the ultimate is 4 individual motors that can be programmed to emulate any driveline behavior and offer arbitrary traction control characteristics.

If these motors are electric, which seems to be the only tractable approach for this kind of setup, they will provide programmable torque and hp curves, too, for individualized drive "modes". No need for gears either, there is enough torque remaining at higher rpms.

Software has eaten the world. Can't wait to see what's next after it. Until then, I steer as clear of big brother as I can, which isn't much, but still

[ThirdGenNut]

AWD would be a great idea for a gto/chevelle like the challenger.
A z28 Camaro with snow tires always got me to work in south dakota. I always had to get to work before the state plows started running. once i got to work i hopped into a 3/4 dodge ram to plow the parking lots for the ladies.
Edit: they weren't studded.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by robertd33

i would love to have a car that kept up with technology instead of "the old times".
fact: awd is better.

In 0-60 times, yes.

On a track? Not necessarily. It comes down to if the potential benefits of AWD outweigh the weight penalty.

Golf R vs. Civic Type R is a good example. Honda specifically mentioned that they didn't go AWD to save weight, and it paid off. It has a great performance edge against the Golf R on tracks.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by robertd33

i would love to have a car that kept up with technology instead of "the old times".

Give me "the old times" every single time . . . where it was 100% on the driver to improve his driving skill and his car was more about the actual driving and less about features and technology. EFI gets a pass over carburetors, points, and condensers, but after that the list gets really short really quick.

Truth be told, when I'm driving I want to be away from technology. Not closer to even more of it.

fact: awd is better.

I'll give you that awd is better for forward acceleration, but no more than that.


Norm