[cirpower]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

The fronts will always wear out faster except for when at the strip, which is a reverse

May i suggest a slight change of plan please:

1. Do put track alignment in (it will make the car handle better!!!)
2. Do put SRF in (the best, only 1 bleed mid season then fresh at start of next season. Easy peasy. It works!)

Apologies in advance for being pushy Cheers!

OK, deal!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by cirpower

OK, deal!

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Enjoying the dialogue! Cheers!

Good stuff and nice to have a civil discussion on a different approach to the never ending quest for better lap times. Thank you! One item you forgot to mention on GEN5 Z/28 and a pricey one at that... Carbon brakes. I would love to have them on SS 1LE as a track model direct from Chevy. Maybe call it SS 1LE R. Recipe: Cabon brakes, forgeline wheels, few more ponies, lose the power windows, mirrors, seats and sound deading...etc. Sort of like the GEN 6 COPOs they made for NHRA/IHRA drag racing. Build them on an as ordered basis. I'd pay up for this provided it was street legal and still came with the track warranty.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Agree with you both, as I have BMR adjustable sway bars already on my car with stock springs and sticky tires are by far the best car mod at the track.

Interesting to learn this. A few questions if you don't mind. Are you on R comp or slicks, three position ARBs, are you balanced more front or rear basis with you ARBs? Any changes in tire wear patterns and did you adjust alignment (assuming cam plates) to compensate for ARBs and if so where are you at. How about F/R toe did you deviate from Chevy Track guidelines? Sorry for all the questions, its just nice to find someone with practical experience using this approach. Overall how would you rate the change in wheel compliance with the road/track surface... a minor change or large? Thanks in advance for your input here.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by cirpower

Thanks everyone for the great perspective and highly interesting discussion. I agree, the car is so extremely capable right out of the box that really no mods are needed. After all, pretty sure I will not become an Indycar racer anymore .

I do have a plan to work on for the next event at the end of June:

- check alignment
- bleed brakes and ABS module
- if front pads are worn, replace with slightly more aggressive pad

...then drive the wheels off the car.

Note: I could not yet find anyone that is capable/willing to do an ABS brake bleed through the GM scan tool....

Very glad to hear this is beneficial for you. Given the potential for speed with your car, I'd advise you also include stainless steel or even carbon brake lines. I run these on all my cars once I get fast (current car is all OEM except for alignment and SRF) and they really contribute to improved brake feel and performance. Plus they aren't that expensive and if your bleeding the brakes your already in there so swap them out. You won't be disappointed, I promise!

In regards to running a more aggressive pad (front mostly) be ready to change pads and rotors more frequently. Depending on the tracks you run you might find it necessary to change pads every few days on track. Rotors will obviously last longer but it's not uncommon to need to swap these every 5 or so days on track (this assumes you run open track events) if you run a very aggressive pad at a track/s which is hard on brakes. And if your pushing hard and you are fast. YMMV here.

For example in my case, SS 1LE (all OEM except alignment and SRF) just hit 5K miles and I'm on my third set of factory pads with ~ 25 hours of on track time since I purchased the car last July. Did an event before the COVID 19 shut in occurred and I'm ready for new front rotors. The other car I track (which hasn't gotten much attention since SS 1LE arrived) I run Hawk DTC 60 front and rear. Car is a Turbocharged boxer with ~400FWHP and 440FWTQ at about 3300lbs Significantly lighter and about the same Lbs - HP.

Anyway, with the DTC60 pads, I change rotors ever 15 to 20 hours of on track time, depending on the tracks I decided to run. ~400 lbs difference between these two and SS 1LE is faster at every track. And she is a heavy girl to get slowed up for the corners. Yet the rotors lasted longer. Just an FYI so you don't get caught out when your rotors have expired. By the way, rotors for these cars aren't cheap either so you definitely want to budget for this.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Interesting to learn this. A few questions if you don't mind. Are you on R comp or slicks, three position ARBs, are you balanced more front or rear basis with you ARBs? Any changes in tire wear patterns and did you adjust alignment (assuming cam plates) to compensate for ARBs and if so where are you at. How about F/R toe did you deviate from Chevy Track guidelines? Sorry for all the questions, its just nice to find someone with practical experience using this approach. Overall how would you rate the change in wheel compliance with the road/track surface... a minor change or large? Thanks in advance for your input here.

Never run R comps, but i have a used set of G3Rs in 285/35/20 from a 5th Gen that ran them 2 days and I got them for $100. I will try them at some point this year. I did run PZero takeoffs a few times, but in a large staggered setup that was all wrong for the car. So 95% of my track time has been on good old G3s and all of my PBs are also.

I went from stock SS bars to ZL1 front and ZLE rear (full stiff) and felt some improvement, but the car still understeered. I found out that the ZLE rear even on full stiff is softer than the 1LE/ZL1 bar, but i knew i wanted stiffer bars so I bought the BMRs. I have set them up as middle front and full stiff rear ever since they have been on the car. I did the mods during winter 2 seasons ago and the first time out that year i thought the car was way to oversteery, but i adjusted my driving and dropped time significantly. Went from 1:54 at Pitt Race to 1:51, i attribute some of that to the bars and some to just getting more familiar with the car as the year before was my first season in this car.

No camber plates for me, just maxed stock and the alignment machine says my car only got to 2.3 F and 1.3 R. I wasn't getting great tire wear with the Chevy recommended toe, but i went to zero toe on the last set and got great wear (see pic). I do run high pressure (~45psi front only) for street driving to get more center tread wear.

Compliance is still great on the street and body roll is clearly reduced which are the benefits you were describing with this setup and what i was shooting for. I was also trying to eliminate understeer obviously. I wouldn't mind putting 1LE springs (front only because i remember the suspension mega thread listing SS rear as stiffer than 1LE) or ZL1 springs on my car for some more improvement. It is supercharged so i think the ZL1 springs would be a good idea without affecting my damping rate too much.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by cirpower

Looks like I need to try those, did you fit them yourself? Looks very painful and I do all my own work in my garage on jack stands....

It's not bad at all on stands. I did mine lsst weekend.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Very glad to hear this is beneficial for you. Given the potential for speed with your car, I'd advise you also include stainless steel or even carbon brake lines. I run these on all my cars once I get fast (current car is all OEM except for alignment and SRF) and they really contribute to improved brake feel and performance. Plus they aren't that expensive and if your bleeding the brakes your already in there so swap them out. You won't be disappointed, I promise!

In regards to running a more aggressive pad (front mostly) be ready to change pads and rotors more frequently. Depending on the tracks you run you might find it necessary to change pads every few days on track. Rotors will obviously last longer but it's not uncommon to need to swap these every 5 or so days on track (this assumes you run open track events) if you run a very aggressive pad at a track/s which is hard on brakes. And if your pushing hard and you are fast. YMMV here.

For example in my case, SS 1LE (all OEM except alignment and SRF) just hit 5K miles and I'm on my third set of factory pads with ~ 25 hours of on track time since I purchased the car last July. Did an event before the COVID 19 shut in occurred and I'm ready for new front rotors. The other car I track (which hasn't gotten much attention since SS 1LE arrived) I run Hawk DTC 60 front and rear. Car is a Turbocharged boxer with ~400FWHP and 440FWTQ at about 3300lbs Significantly lighter and about the same Lbs - HP.

Anyway, with the DTC60 pads, I change rotors ever 15 to 20 hours of on track time, depending on the tracks I decided to run. ~400 lbs difference between these two and SS 1LE is faster at every track. And she is a heavy girl to get slowed up for the corners. Yet the rotors lasted longer. Just an FYI so you don't get caught out when your rotors have expired. By the way, rotors for these cars aren't cheap either so you definitely want to budget for this.

Interesting, as i get different wear patterns on my 1LE.
On average I swap stock pads every 5 days (and they still have life left but i run a lot of 3 day events) and rortors last a good 12-14. That's over 60 days at 7 venues. And i am not "slow" . I think Provoste (very fast guy) who used DTC60s on his car had similar wear patterns longevity wise.

PS Haven't felt a need to upgrade stock lines, not to say the upgrade would be a waste of $. Just havent noticed much difference between stock vs steel braided in my last car. From what ive read stockers are not simply rubber but cant recall details.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Good stuff and nice to have a civil discussion on a different approach to the never ending quest for better lap times. Thank you! One item you forgot to mention on GEN5 Z/28 and a pricey one at that... Carbon brakes. I would love to have them on SS 1LE as a track model direct from Chevy. Maybe call it SS 1LE R. Recipe: Cabon brakes, forgeline wheels, few more ponies, lose the power windows, mirrors, seats and sound deading...etc. Sort of like the GEN 6 COPOs they made for NHRA/IHRA drag racing. Build them on an as ordered basis. I'd pay up for this provided it was street legal and still came with the track warranty.

My sentiments exactly!

Indeed that would be a very interesting model! I like the 1LE R idea too!
Not a fan of carbon brakes myself (consumables cost, most my Z06 buddies replaced them with steelies), but a more hard core track model with extra hp and less weight and 18 rims on G3Rs would be sweet

Of course some folks do just that, yet more HP equals no warranty, besides a stock car is plenty fast already and a great dual purpose car. A primary reason i went for it from my track car. Cheers!

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Interesting, as i get different wear patterns on my 1LE.
On average I swap stock pads every 5 days (and they still have life left but i run a lot of 3 day events) and rortors last a good 12-14. That's over 60 days at 7 venues. And i am not "slow" . I think Provoste (very fast guy) who used DTC60s on his car had similar wear patterns longevity wise.

PS Haven't felt a need to upgrade stock lines, not to say the upgrade would be a waste of $. Just havent noticed much difference between stock vs steel braided in my last car. From what ive read stockers are not simply rubber but cant recall details.

Hence the YMMV comment. Stock lines are not stainless steel as some have indicated. I believe a member here - Mountain - dissected and pair based on his findings these are wrapped in rayon, not steel.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

My sentiments exactly!

Indeed that would be a very interesting model! I like the 1LE R idea too!
Not a fan of carbon brakes myself (consumables cost, most my Z06 buddies replaced them with steelies), but a more hard core track model with extra hp and less weight and 18 rims on G3Rs would be sweet

Of course some folks do just that, yet more HP equals no warranty, besides a stock car is plenty fast already and a great dual purpose car. A primary reason i went for it from my track car. Cheers!

We are in the same boat... keep it simple and a warranty, please. No more headaches with a trailer queen track car. Too many potential issues to cut into on track time.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by LESS1

We are in the same boat... keep it simple and a warranty, please. No more headaches with a trailer queen track car. Too many potential issues to cut into on track time.

Bingo!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Hence the YMMV comment. Stock lines are not stainless steel as some have indicated. I believe a member here - Mountain - dissected and pair based on his findings these are wrapped in rayon, not steel.

Yep. If that's the case this new high tech rayon is quite advanced and apparently provides an equal benefit.

https://www.kgk-rubberpoint.de/en/25...reinforcement/

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Never run R comps, but i have a used set of G3Rs in 285/35/20 from a 5th Gen that ran them 2 days and I got them for $100. I will try them at some point this year. I did run PZero takeoffs a few times, but in a large staggered setup that was all wrong for the car. So 95% of my track time has been on good old G3s and all of my PBs are also.

I went from stock SS bars to ZL1 front and ZLE rear (full stiff) and felt some improvement, but the car still understeered. I found out that the ZLE rear even on full stiff is softer than the 1LE/ZL1 bar, but i knew i wanted stiffer bars so I bought the BMRs. I have set them up as middle front and full stiff rear ever since they have been on the car. I did the mods during winter 2 seasons ago and the first time out that year i thought the car was way to oversteery, but i adjusted my driving and dropped time significantly. Went from 1:54 at Pitt Race to 1:51, i attribute some of that to the bars and some to just getting more familiar with the car as the year before was my first season in this car.

No camber plates for me, just maxed stock and the alignment machine says my car only got to 2.3 F and 1.3 R. I wasn't getting great tire wear with the Chevy recommended toe, but i went to zero toe on the last set and got great wear (see pic). I do run high pressure (~45psi front only) for street driving to get more center tread wear.

Compliance is still great on the street and body roll is clearly reduced which are the benefits you were describing with this setup and what i was shooting for. I was also trying to eliminate understeer obviously. I wouldn't mind putting 1LE springs (front only because i remember the suspension mega thread listing SS rear as stiffer than 1LE) or ZL1 springs on my car for some more improvement. It is supercharged so i think the ZL1 springs would be a good idea without affecting my damping rate too much.

Ok so mostly G3s got it. I have heard the same concerning ZL1 ARBs vs 1LE/ZL1. Sounds like a good setup with a nice drop in your PITT times and your tire wear is particularly good considering you are not using plates. I think a lot of folks do not realize you can dial back the camber a bit with bigger ARB.

The oversteer you mention is this exit or entry or a little of both? When I use the BBSS I like a little entry/off throttle oversteer to help point the car in. May seem foreign at first but once you get the hang of it big gains are possible. And it really kind of forces you to be smooth and to carry braking deeper. Glad to hear about the compliance you mention as well. I drive my cars to the track these days. And there is nothing worse than an over sprung car on the street. Ok, maybe a loud exhaust is worse!

Any idea what the rate difference (spring) is between SS/SS 1LE/ZL1? Good stuff and I cannot wait for COVID-19 all clear so I can get back on track. Interested in your feedback since I’ve zero experience with SS 1LE and ARBs.