[Mr. Wyndham]

I read an article about the ZR1 in Car and Driver, and a lot of Tadge quotes seem to indicate that one of the biggest enablers of this car was ignoring EU pedestrian standards, and choosing not to sell the car there.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The Z/28 does not have to outperform the ZL1 1LE, that was a pedestal that the 5th gen car created. The 5th gen car, put this thought in people heads that a Z/28 has to be the end all when it comes to Camaro performance.



Hot LT-1 in a ZL1 1LE Chassis would tick all the boxes for what many would consider a proper Z/28. It would be a serious track package, it would be the fastest N/A powered camaro, and it would be one hell of a package. Price wise would probably slot in between SS 1LE and ZL1

I understand what you are saying. The Z28 when it first came out was not the most powerful car in the Camaro line up. But once the Camaro stopped getting big blocks, around the mid 70s, the Z28 has always been the top of the line (and most powerful) Camaro. So I can understand why people expect the a Z28 to be the most powerful and best performing Camaro in the line up.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

I understand what you are saying. The Z28 when it first came out was not the most powerful car in the Camaro line up. But once the Camaro stopped getting big blocks, around the mid 70s, the Z28 has always been the top of the line (and most powerful) Camaro. So I can understand why people expect the a Z28 to be the most powerful and best performing Camaro in the line up.

Until the SS came back in 01/02 LOL but what you are referencing is because the Z/28 simply became the V-8 model.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The LT5 won’t end up in a Camaro. No Camaro has ever gotten the best engine GM produces.

LT4 in the ZL1, LT4 in the 97 SS SLP Camaro.

[RLHMARINES]

My belief is that a ZL1 will have the LT5 engine upgrade during this generation and the Z/28 will also be produced before the next gen arrives but it will not have a power adder. We will see an entirely new power plant come our way in 2019 for the final 2 year send off of the 6th gen Camaro.

[doc7000]

At this point it is going to come down to what the Camaro needs to compete in the market place, honestly though it isn't just about horsepower ratings anymore.

[Quinten_33]

I think the Z/28 should use a lower displacement, moderate rpm V8. 323CI truck engine with 6700rpm redline? Strip an SS 1LE and give it something similar to Corvette competition seats, make the PDR standard and back seats, electronics, and A/C optional. Standard DSSV with 285/315 Supercar 3R tires, optional carbon ceramics, and a bit more downforce. It would also need a flowtie, A black bow tie, black taillights and brake light, and 323 badges on the sides. 3500lbs with 450hp and a 6-Speed. It wouldn’t be the fastest in a straight line nor around a track, but Chevy could easily sell that for $55,000 and make money. That 5.3 liter would pull all day long and the suspension and tires would make it the most agile Camaro to date, and I bet you it would be the most fun Camaro to toss around a track. That’s what the Z/28 should be: a fun, inexpensive, reliable, yet high performing track car. It would also fill in the $50,000-$60,000 range for the Camaro lineup and make Ford wish their GT350, boss, Mach 1, or whatever else they have was that good.

[doc7000]

If the Camaro gets its own engine or works it out where they will share an engine with the ATS V replacement (I can see that happening) then they should aim to set a new high water mark for production OHV engines. Go for at least 7,500rpms (maybe higher), they can use a 5.3L V-8 but honestly I like the idea of a 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke 5.0L V-8. With the bore of the 6.2L engine they can put some heads on it the approaches 400CFM of flow on the intake side of things. Look at the Coyote engine, even ported heads are pushing around 340CFM of flow while stock is pushing 298CFM of flow (I believe first gen heads). Stock LS3 heads will flow 314CFM and would fit on said 5.0L engine meaning you have a 5.0 2 valve head with more flow then Fords 4 valve 5.0L head. I have seen on the net ported LS3 heads and after market casting pushing close to 400CFM. Put that on a 5.0L LT motor combined with some rpm and you would make huge power.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I read an article about the ZR1 in Car and Driver, and a lot of Tadge quotes seem to indicate that one of the biggest enablers of this car was ignoring EU pedestrian standards, and choosing not to sell the car there.

America first!

[Quinten_33]

Originally Posted by doc7000

If the Camaro gets its own engine or works it out where they will share an engine with the ATS V replacement (I can see that happening) then they should aim to set a new high water mark for production OHV engines. Go for at least 7,500rpms (maybe higher), they can use a 5.3L V-8 but honestly I like the idea of a 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke 5.0L V-8. With the bore of the 6.2L engine they can put some heads on it the approaches 400CFM of flow on the intake side of things. Look at the Coyote engine, even ported heads are pushing around 340CFM of flow while stock is pushing 298CFM of flow (I believe first gen heads). Stock LS3 heads will flow 314CFM and would fit on said 5.0L engine meaning you have a 5.0 2 valve head with more flow then Fords 4 valve 5.0L head. I have seen on the net ported LS3 heads and after market casting pushing close to 400CFM. Put that on a 5.0L LT motor combined with some rpm and you would make huge power.

That’s crazy to think that LS heads are that much better than DOHC coyote heads... A 7,500rpm OHV 5.0 sounds like something that’ll make the annual “10 best engines” list. The only issues I see are EPA ratings and profitability. An engine like that has to use a lot of fuel. I know people can their LT4s and run E85 and their mpg drops to singe digits but Chevy won’t produce a car with worse gas mileage than the last Z/28. How expensive would that engine be? I know LS3s are cheap but it’s $2,500 bucks more for an LT1. A 7,500 rpm engine with LT tech would be at least as much as an LT4, right? Maybe that price isn’t too bad, but it doesn’t make much sense when you can get an LT4 instead. The Z/28 can’t just happen because the lineup needs a Z/28, It has to make sense. It has to be fast enough to justify its price and cheap enough to justify its speed, yet it still has to be special. That 5.0 would be special, I’m just not convinced it would be a justifiable choice over the LT4.

I still want to see a low rpm, low displacement small block Camaro. Maybe that could work as a less expensive SS engine(Think R/T vs SRT 392). 375hp 390lb-ft or torque, six speed manual. If they drop a few standard features like they said they would, a $33,000 V8 Camaro would be possible with that engine. That’s old school fun, and I think it would work. Either way, we’ll have to wait ‘till summer to see if they’re testing a new Z/28. Until then, there’s no point to all of this talk anyways.

[Supercup]

Originally Posted by Quinten_33

I still want to see a low rpm, low displacement small block Camaro. Maybe that could work as a less expensive SS engine(Think R/T vs SRT 392). 375hp 390lb-ft or torque, six speed manual. If they drop a few standard features like they said they would, a $33,000 V8 Camaro would be possible with that engine. That’s old school fun, and I think it would work..

That might be a good slot in the current gen 6 line up - but that will not be a Z/28 - it needs to slot in between SS 1LE and ZL1 1LE - no creature comforts, light as possible - what NA motor - who knows?

[JamesNoBrakes]

The ZL1-1LE makes it damn near impossible to have an NA Z/28, the engine would have to go super-exotic to make the kind of power that would eclipse the 1LE and it's so damn fast and track-tuned already that I seriously doubt a lower HP NA engine around the 500-550hp level is going to have a chance in hell of beating it. Maybe if they did a flat-crank V12 like ferarri and was able to get 700 NA HP, but that ain't going to happen, no way they'd invest in those kind of materials and that kind of development. The only way I see this going down is with the LT5, with the only possible ace being a smaller displacement hot-V twin turbo, but again, I'd doubt they'd invest that much into it (but then, what goes in the mid-engined Corvette Z06/ZR1?). I think they'd have to push NA development to levels they just won't go to for the Z/28 to be NA.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but for them to eclipse the current ZL1-1LE by any significant amount would take something that will surpass so many hypercars that I just don't see it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by hotlap

America first!

Right?!

But in all seriousness - this is what happens when you have to cater to so many different rules and standards in one product. Can you imagine the things we don't know about our cars that they were designed/constrained for that have absolutely no bearing on us?

EDIT: I don't doubt for an instant the lower/smaller blower on the LT4 was, in-part, a product of EU standards in the first place!

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The LT5 won’t end up in a Camaro. No Camaro has ever gotten the best engine GM produces.

I agree that it is doubtful we get the LT5. But no Camaro generation has gone without a Z/28. I doubt this will be the first.

If GM doesn't have a suitable N/A engine in development and ready in time for end of the 6th gen, I think they would rather drop the N/A requirement and drop the LT5 into a Z/28 badged (limited production) than go without.

Hopefully they do what they should have done with the 6th gen and limit the cars to 602 examples per year for one or two years.