[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Ah the dearly departed R-12. How do we miss thee. In my ‘85 Regal that was black with dark maroon interior I could throw the A/C on Max after it was sitting in 90 degree sun all day and 120 degrees inside and within 30 seconds you could hang meat from the coat hooks.

R-12 was a great medium temp refrigerant. Very efficient in that slot and easy to work with.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Camaro_QC

I see so much hate about all the GM new vision and staff... Why don't you guys sell your Camaro and buy a Mustang instead?

Well I mean Ford isn't much better in that regard. Supposedly the next gen Mustang will be EV as well. You can't win.

I am not against EV myself and it works well for some people. It's the ideology and the fact that the governments have no detailed plans to make it all work that bugs everyone here.

Sent from toaster or something

[Red Chief]

Durr I want an electric car that runs on CLEAN energy from power plants!

[Chutzpah]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

The Ozone Hole Theory was questionable when it was presented back in the 70's.

30 years after the Montreal Protocol, the theory doesn't even remotely line up to what is actually occurring with the ozone layer today. Absolutely no correlation.

So, yes, I studied it, didn't listen to the propaganda, and came to the conclusion it was a bunch of bovine sheet back then. The recorded scientific history proves that the theory is false.

Don’t want to sidetrack things here, so I’ll be brief. Can you please PM me any info you have that disproves the CFC / Ozone layer effect?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Well I mean Ford isn't much better in that regard. Supposedly the next gen Mustang will be EV as well. You can't win.

I am not against EV myself and it works well for some people. It's the ideology and the fact that the governments have no detailed plans to make it all work that bugs everyone here.

Sent from toaster or something

The government only role in this is to suggest or in some cases mandate emissions. How it's done isn't in the regs. Customers and producers will sort that out. Free market and all.

Tesla has set up Supercharger stations all across the country and it had zero to do with the government.

For example everyone is currently fixated on the "I hate EVs" montra yet that isn't the only solution out there. Fuel Cells are on the road now and my company just announced working with GM's fuel cell division on developing FC trucks. And with defined routes and stopping points that can work quite well.

I fully agree you can't legislate technology but it is certainly pushing technology to new levels.

[Realist]

The current administration stated a desire to install 500000 charging stations. Anything the Government does comes from taxpayers.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The government only role in this is to suggest or in some cases mandate emissions.

Tell this to VW and their diesels....

Did the government merely "suggest" they pay billions of dollars in fines too?

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

its not the cars they hate...its the damn liberals,the freedom loving bunch that is going to force everyone to accept the liberal point of view.

Exactly. A lot of people don't get that we're right now in the fight to save our American way of life.

[Crushin_LT1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The government only role in this is to suggest or in some cases mandate emissions. How it's done isn't in the regs. Customers and producers will sort that out. Free market and all.

Tesla has set up Supercharger stations all across the country and it had zero to do with the government.

For example everyone is currently fixated on the "I hate EVs" montra yet that isn't the only solution out there. Fuel Cells are on the road now and my company just announced working with GM's fuel cell division on developing FC trucks. And with defined routes and stopping points that can work quite well.

I fully agree you can't legislate technology but it is certainly pushing technology to new levels.

I am fairly certain tesla is receiving grants and tax credits/benefits for their stations in most areas. Additionally, I do believe their newest network at customer homes is trying to use the network effect to eliminate the whole stigma at cost of customers (could be wrong, could be at Tesla's cost, but it isn't for charity either way).



Don't get me wrong, I like EVs and Teslas are sick, but to pretend that Tesla is doing this out of their own sheer goodwill is ridiculous.

[95 imp]

"Newsom’s budget plan calls for using $465 million in cap-and-trade dollars to help lower-income Californians buy electric cars and trucks."

"Newsom also wants to spend $50 million to install vehicle chargers at state-owned facilities and to borrow $1 billion against future vehicle registration fees to accelerate the build-out of charging stations."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/editorial...162437209.html

Remember when the government subsidized ICE cars and gas stations when we went from horse and buggy to autos? Remember when the government taxed you to help pay for your neighbor's new car?

Ya... me either...

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

"Newsom’s budget plan calls for using $465 million in cap-and-trade dollars to help lower-income Californians buy electric cars and trucks."

"Newsom also wants to spend $50 million to install vehicle chargers at state-owned facilities and to borrow $1 billion against future vehicle registration fees to accelerate the build-out of charging stations."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/editorial...162437209.html

Remember when the government subsidized ICE cars and gas stations when we went from horse and buggy to autos? Remember when the government taxed you to help pay for your neighbor's new car?

Ya... me either...

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

- Ronald Wilson Reagan

[NeverDie]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

I'm still scouring the history books trying to find how the government taxed buggy whip manufacturers and grain distributors while giving credits for automobile and tire companies in order to artificially alter the market enough so everyone would switch to the "new technology".

Owning and operating a vehicle in any state in the entire union is NOT A RIGHT. It is a privilege that we are allowed provided we are licensed and the vehicle is registered. None of us own the roadways we operate on, either.

So... what exactly are you getting on about here? You'd rather just be forced into an electric vehicle with no incentives or what?

[Rhobz]

Personally I don't have anything against EVs themselves. If someone wants to own one, great! In fact, I would like my wife to get a Tesla Model 3. They perform well, look good, and are AWD. Plus, she rarely drives very far, mostly in town so it would work great for her. I also bought my 16 year old daughter a used Honda CRZ Hybrid because she is a tree hugger and it will cost her and her mom less in gas.

However, I am very much against how the government handles the push for EVs. Years ago in CA, there was a big push that included gov't subsidies for buying Hybrids and/or EVs. It was successful and a lot of vehicles sold. Then the gov't realized that they were receiving significantly less money by way of gasoline taxes because fewer people were buying gasoline. So they raised vehicle registration fees across the board to help make up for the loss in income from taxes. That meant that I, as the owner of an ICE vehicle now had to pay more for registration because other people were buying EVs or hybrids.

This is just one simple example. I am sure there are many more from CA and other states.

A free market will dictate if the gov't let's it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Tell this to VW and their diesels....

Did the government merely "suggest" they pay billions of dollars in fines too?

Not quite sure what your point is.

The government mandated emissions for gasoline and diesel cars and trucks.

VW elected to CHEAT in order to meet those requirements, and hence was penalized, as were others.

So my point remains correct, the government only mandated the emissions performance of the cars, they did not mandate the software or hardware to meet those standards. VW made poor choices on how to meet them......or not meet them.

But again not clear on your point on suggested fines. The regulations are pretty clear on what happens if you don't meet them.

But VW was also penalized in the consumer world as well as some vehicles couldn't just get a software update so vehicle were bought back as I recall.