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Old 02-01-2021, 10:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by SS376 View Post
You're 100% correct. Sad to say as a former diehard GM guy, but I can't see myself ever buying a GM product again. Between this and the ridiculous logic behind the redesigned GM logo (the lower case m supposedly means they're more "inclusive") they are dead to me.
Glad I’m not the only one on here who gets it.
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Old 02-02-2021, 02:11 AM   #30
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These are the idiots in GM's management today.

https://rumble.com/vdgeh7-ep.-2392a-...troys-fed.html

Go to...5:40 min in on the video.
That looked like an old video clip, 2011-ish maybe. I get the zeitgeist here now, but just don't think poorly of someone caught off-guard.

Did anyone watch it? Anyone keeping up on the GME short-squeeze, and big money gamma-squeezes? The potential for retail investors un-rigging the silver market?
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Old 02-02-2021, 06:53 AM   #31
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Barra was and still is nothing but a figurehead for the stock holders and politically correct community.
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Exactly.
So a "figurehead" is leading the company to $10 Billion a year plus in profits producing and selling cars and trucks? A number Elon could only dream of. And sorry, but if you know how it works, "figureheads" don't stick around very long.
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Old 02-02-2021, 07:06 AM   #32
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So a "figurehead" is leading the company to $10 Billion a year plus in profits producing and selling cars and trucks? A number Elon could only dream of. And sorry, but if you know how it works, "figureheads" don't stick around very long.
The bailout just 10 years ago separated the good and the bad from the new GM. The new GM only had the good and no taxes to pay the Fed for years and years. This set up any CEO placed in the role to look good for quite a few years. I bet if Ford knew what they now know after seeing the GM bailout, in retrospect they would have done the same. I don’t have anything against her but honestly think many folks I worked with over the years could be put in the same position and the outcome would be the same. Take her away and GM keeps going. Take Musk away from Tesla and it would suffer instantly.
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Old 02-02-2021, 08:01 AM   #33
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The bailout just 10 years ago separated the good and the bad from the new GM. The new GM only had the good and no taxes to pay the Fed for years and years. This set up any CEO placed in the role to look good for quite a few years. I bet if Ford knew what they now know after seeing the GM bailout, in retrospect they would have done the same. I don’t have anything against her but honestly think many folks I worked with over the years could be put in the same position and the outcome would be the same. Take her away and GM keeps going. Take Musk away from Tesla and it would suffer instantly.
Exactly. GM got a clean slate after the bankruptcy/bailout. It's as if the bad stuff/negative equity/red ink never happened. They went from not being able to pay the utilities to keep the lights on at the factories to completely in the clear, almost overnight.

What do you do when you're the administration that takes care of that for you? You put in place someone who does exactly what you say.

Everyone comes out smelling like roses and the future is under the directives of that administration.

They could have put my 26 year old pot smoking nephew who does nothing but eat Recces peanut butter cups and watch reruns of The Office in at CEO and they'd be showing massive profits for the last 10 years. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

It would have sucked if GM went under, I'm not questioning the fact that they'd have taken much of the American and world economy with them if they tanked. But the results of government control are rearing their ugly heads now. Bara is a pawn.
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Old 02-02-2021, 08:22 AM   #34
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And she surely isn’t worth the $22 million she is getting now!
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Old 02-02-2021, 08:29 AM   #35
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Similar conversations were probably happening during the transition from horse/buggy to gas powered car in the early 1900s... time will tell who's ahead of the curve in this case.
I'm still scouring the history books trying to find how the government taxed buggy whip manufacturers and grain distributors while giving credits for automobile and tire companies in order to artificially alter the market enough so everyone would switch to the "new technology".
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:35 AM   #36
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Is it really a gamble at all when govt regs will all but mandate EV's? Hell, if I'm high up at GM right now, I'd want to lobby politicians to force EV's as soon as possible. If you think you have the lead on the tech, forcing the public to buy it is about as good of a plan to make money as it gets. Even if you don't lead, forcing obsolescence through regulation is a gold mine.
The issue is everyone keeps using the word "forced".

No one is, as of now, being forced to buy an EV. Yes, California has lined up and said no NEW vehicles can be ICE after 2035 I believe. But even then, guess what? You can leave California (and not move to the other CARB following states). At least for now.

But in the end, this will not cause any concerns for 98% of buyers or users of automotive transportation. I say users as obviously there is a side play that won't be forced that would simply have automated conveyances that will move you from point a to point b with no ownership required. And yes, EVs make that a much better proposition simply for reliability improvements in the powertrain.

So as long as it remains technical conversation, this is fun. But there is a lot of pent up anger over this clearly.

So to be clear, you are not being forced to do anything you don't want. It just might be a bit more inconvenient for you and you may have to move to enjoy your freedom of purchasing an ICE but that isn't being forced.

The longer term threat, and likely beyond my driving on my own, is when there are so few ICEs on the road that getting gasoline or diesel becomes the same concern everyone is expressing about EV charging today. With well over 200,000,000 cars and trucks on the road today, even with 100% EVs, that number is still 100,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road in 6 years. And clearly we aren't at 100% EVs for all of NA production and sales.

And if I recall correctly, CARB has only mandated NEW vehicle sales be EV. They aren't preventing you from buying or selling an ICE or driving even driving one.

This is a longggg way off.

And even if they made it illegal to drive an ICE, there isn't production capacity to even make that happen.

You may not have a Camaro, but you can have an ICE for quite some time if that's what you need/want.
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:49 AM   #37
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The issue is everyone keeps using the word "forced".

No one is, as of now, being forced to buy an EV. Yes, California has lined up and said no NEW vehicles can be ICE after 2035 I believe. But even then, guess what? You can leave California (and not move to the other CARB following states). At least for now.

But in the end, this will not cause any concerns for 98% of buyers or users of automotive transportation. I say users as obviously there is a side play that won't be forced that would simply have automated conveyances that will move you from point a to point b with no ownership required. And yes, EVs make that a much better proposition simply for reliability improvements in the powertrain.

So as long as it remains technical conversation, this is fun. But there is a lot of pent up anger over this clearly.

So to be clear, you are not being forced to do anything you don't want. It just might be a bit more inconvenient for you and you may have to move to enjoy your freedom of purchasing an ICE but that isn't being forced.

The longer term threat, and likely beyond my driving on my own, is when there are so few ICEs on the road that getting gasoline or diesel becomes the same concern everyone is expressing about EV charging today. With well over 200,000,000 cars and trucks on the road today, even with 100% EVs, that number is still 100,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road in 6 years. And clearly we aren't at 100% EVs for all of NA production and sales.

And if I recall correctly, CARB has only mandated NEW vehicle sales be EV. They aren't preventing you from buying or selling an ICE or driving even driving one.

This is a longggg way off.

And even if they made it illegal to drive an ICE, there isn't production capacity to even make that happen.

You may not have a Camaro, but you can have an ICE for quite some time if that's what you need/want.
This whole thing has me seriously considering getting a '70 Camaro SS396 4 speed as my next car just to spite a lot of people. I'll use it as my everyday driver, I don't care. Add modern conveniences, A/C, cruise, power windows and seats, and a nice sat/nav head unit with XM..... so what if I destroy the value of it by doing all that.

I'd rather drink 8 mpg of leaded high test all day and pollute out the wazoo than go along with GM's EVs now.
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:53 AM   #38
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GM knows where their bread is buttered. Their doing and saying all this to get Govt subsidy $$$.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:02 PM   #39
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I'm considering building an LS IROC myself.
Those are cool too, probably the best looking of the 3rd gens.

I'm partial to the split bumper.
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Old 02-02-2021, 01:14 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Petrol Head View Post
This whole thing has me seriously considering getting a '70 Camaro SS396 4 speed as my next car just to spite a lot of people. I'll use it as my everyday driver, I don't care. Add modern conveniences, A/C, cruise, power windows and seats, and a nice sat/nav head unit with XM..... so what if I destroy the value of it by doing all that.

I'd rather drink 8 mpg of leaded high test all day and pollute out the wazoo than go along with GM's EVs now.
Actually, there are companies that specialize in modernizing old cars. Very cool stuff.

I wouldn't do it to spite people, I would do it because it's cool.

Sent from toaster or something
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Old 02-02-2021, 01:36 PM   #41
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Actually, there are companies that specialize in modernizing old cars. Very cool stuff.

I wouldn't do it to spite people, I would do it because it's cool.

Sent from toaster or something
Oh don't get me wrong it is cool. But until now I would never think of modernizing a classic. I would have bought the '70 and kept it without A/C, without power anything, and as pure and original as possible. Drive it only in nice weather, to a cruise in, for a fun drive to nowhere and back, and just strictly for enjoyment.

Now I just want to make sure every yin yang in an electric GM toaster mobile smells my leaded high test at every red light I drive by every day to and from everywhere I go.
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Old 02-02-2021, 01:51 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
The issue is everyone keeps using the word "forced".

No one is, as of now, being forced to buy an EV. Yes, California has lined up and said no NEW vehicles can be ICE after 2035 I believe. But even then, guess what? You can leave California (and not move to the other CARB following states). At least for now.

But in the end, this will not cause any concerns for 98% of buyers or users of automotive transportation. I say users as obviously there is a side play that won't be forced that would simply have automated conveyances that will move you from point a to point b with no ownership required. And yes, EVs make that a much better proposition simply for reliability improvements in the powertrain.

So as long as it remains technical conversation, this is fun. But there is a lot of pent up anger over this clearly.

So to be clear, you are not being forced to do anything you don't want. It just might be a bit more inconvenient for you and you may have to move to enjoy your freedom of purchasing an ICE but that isn't being forced.

The longer term threat, and likely beyond my driving on my own, is when there are so few ICEs on the road that getting gasoline or diesel becomes the same concern everyone is expressing about EV charging today. With well over 200,000,000 cars and trucks on the road today, even with 100% EVs, that number is still 100,000,000 ICE vehicles on the road in 6 years. And clearly we aren't at 100% EVs for all of NA production and sales.

And if I recall correctly, CARB has only mandated NEW vehicle sales be EV. They aren't preventing you from buying or selling an ICE or driving even driving one.

This is a longggg way off.

And even if they made it illegal to drive an ICE, there isn't production capacity to even make that happen.

You may not have a Camaro, but you can have an ICE for quite some time if that's what you need/want.
Silliest argument ever.
Laws ARE force.

3 states (thus far) have banned ICE with a deadline.
All the manufacturer's are only going to offer EV's to comply. It's just a matter of time before parts or fuel isn't available/ridiculously expensive to make it uneconomical to drive ICE cars whether by market forces or government taxes artificially elevating costs .

Conversely, you get tax credits to buy the car "they" want you to artificially lowering the cost.

They did it with Freon (R-12, R-22, and many others. Now, the "new" R-410a is on the chopping block). They are almost using the same playbook for cars.
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