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Old 11-26-2013, 03:09 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Normagene View Post
Was watching an episode of Top Gear/BBC, and they dyno'd an old 350...... Then had to paint over the 350 because it was no longer even close. HP drops quickly w/age.


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Old 11-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #170
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Wow....... Wow.............

my head hurts after reading the first page of this thread......

First: People are putting words in Al's mouth. Al has delivered amazing Camaros in this generation. Yet we have people who would disrespect him by misquoting him. That upsets me and it should upset you...........

Second: Let's assume for a minute that we DO offer a 4 cylinder Camaro. Do you suppose we're going to FORCE people to buy one?

If Ford wants to offer a 4 cylinder engine -- let them - the market will determine whether it's a wise and valid decision -- and the opinions of some on this site are just that - opinions with no facts to back up the declarations made.....


I personally think that it's disgraceful when people make remarks about our 6 cylinder owners -- and I see more of the same in this thread - perhaps I'm reading too much into it....perhaps.....perhaps not........

Some people imply - and others make a declaration -- that if you drive a 6 cylinder that somehow you are inferior. I suspect the same will happen if Ford decides to offer a 4 cylinder in the Mustang.......

I hate posting things like this - because it's divisive - and I hate when this community gets divisive.....but people - there are so many people jumping to conclusions in this (and other) threads, that my head wants to explode......

AGAIN - let Ford try offering a 4 cylinder engine - it may or may not sell...

.....but what you CANNOT ignore are the CAFE standards - which I will repeat: 54.6 MPG by mid 2020s...including LD Pickups and SUVs....

......for those of you who are carrying on about the 4 cylinder - how 'bout explaining how YOU would meet this standard if you were the CEO of Ford or GM..... (...and making political remarks gets you exactly nowhere......)

Lastly - who said that a 4 cylinder engine can't get you spectacular performance at some point in the future????

Now - let's get back to earth - shall we?

And stop misquoting Al Oppenheiser - he deserves much better....... Don't MAKE me send out the Black Suburbans.........


Great post.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:00 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2 View Post
I'm not knocking a V6, so why knock a 4?
Less HP/TQ than the V6, probably the same mileage in the same car, the engine's probably heavier than the V6 and probably takes up more space under the hood. TT, so more moving parts to repair and may need to be spun to 4k rpm to get decent torque.

Also, the car will need to be lighter to get similar performance. So whereas today the Camaro handles accidents like a tank, the next gen Camaro may be an accordian.

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And GM does need to sell what people want to buy, and there are those who love the looks of a Camaro but probably would be happy with a turbo four in the lighter next gen model.
Who? There have been a few cars that have been really popular with a turbo four, but that vast majority of successful American cars have been V8's. European cars don't count as they essentially have to mass-produce low-displacement cars due to regulations.

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I'm a V8 fan, through and through, but if it guarantees the survival of Camaros and Mustangs, I say put 4,6 and 8's in them. The more choice, the more sales, the better.
What does history demonstrate happens to the availability of 8 cylinder engines when cars are made with 4 cylinder engines?
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:21 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
What does history demonstrate happens to the availability of 8 cylinder engines when cars are made with 4 cylinder engines?
Can't go solely by history to determine how that plays out in the current market.

Back then 4 cyl cars had about 100 hp. Now they're pushing almost 200 hp which was similar to the V6s back then. Sure the cars weigh more but a 4 cyl has more punch than it did back then.

If they had the resources, I'd say from a marketing standpoint, I suggest three tiers:

  • Base= LS 312 hp V6 for lowest cost and folks who just want a car that looks cool and care less about racing.
  • Mid =LT V6 TT w/ 360+ hp for folks w/ extra cash but still need good mpg. This will help with the CAFE. (Great for modding )
  • SS=V8 with 420+ hp for who gives a crap, insane power.

But go no more than that! Let's say they have a 4 cyl for a base model. Great! Some people who stick to tradition stop progress. A 4 cyl ain't gonna put out 97 hp!! Like the other post said, no one is forcing someone to buy them.

GM is the business of selling cars. If a 4 cyl car will sell, then make it.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:02 PM   #173
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V-8 for those who don't give a crap, insane power. Count me in!


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Old 11-26-2013, 05:27 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TastyBake View Post
Can't go solely by history to determine how that plays out in the current market.

Back then 4 cyl cars had about 100 hp. Now they're pushing almost 200 hp which was similar to the V6s back then. Sure the cars weigh more but a 4 cyl has more punch than it did back then.

If they had the resources, I'd say from a marketing standpoint, I suggest three tiers:

  • Base= LS 312 hp V6 for lowest cost and folks who just want a car that looks cool and care less about racing.
  • Mid =LT V6 TT w/ 360+ hp for folks w/ extra cash but still need good mpg. This will help with the CAFE. (Great for modding )
  • SS=V8 with 420+ hp for who gives a crap, insane power.

But go no more than that! Let's say they have a 4 cyl for a base model. Great! Some people who stick to tradition stop progress. A 4 cyl ain't gonna put out 97 hp!! Like the other post said, no one is forcing someone to buy them.

GM is the business of selling cars. If a 4 cyl car will sell, then make it.
I am not sure when "Back Then" was to you but back in the 60's it wasn't uncommon for 4 cylinder cars to have in the neighborhood of 50HP, in the 70's the were barely over 100, of course also in the mid 70's it wasn't uncommon to have a V8 with 150HP and a V6 with 110HP.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:35 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
The Cruze Diesel has 272 HP and close to 300 lb ft of torque? Hot damn.

And seriously? A truck engine is what you want to compare it to? Let me know when the LV3 delivers 30+ MPG in any application. And I fail to see how "size of packaging" and "weight considerations" make the LV3 a better engine when the LTG is smaller and lighter.

And of course it had the most improvements. The outgoing 4.3L was ridiculously outdated. There was nowhere for it to go but up.

It'd be like going from a quarter horse to a Corvette and being astonished at how much faster the Corvette is. Don't get me wrong, LV3 is a fantastic engine, but there's a reason it's a truck engine.
Was just basically saying that GM has a lot going for them, adding on to your pitch of the LTG...
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:37 PM   #176
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This was in this months Car and driver to show how things have changed just in the last few years.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:30 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by TastyBake View Post
Can't go solely by history to determine how that plays out in the current market.
Past experience is a better predicter than wishes. We can all wish for cars that get 50 mpg, run 12's in the quarter and start in the $30k range or less, but reality tells us we can only get 2 of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TastyBake View Post
Back then 4 cyl cars had about 100 hp. Now they're pushing almost 200 hp which was similar to the V6s back then. Sure the cars weigh more but a 4 cyl has more punch than it did back then.
V8's and V6's have probably improved more than 4 cylinders in that timeframe, so switching to a 4 banger might be an overall downgrade.

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GM is the business of selling cars. If a 4 cyl car will sell, then make it.
Yes, please make a 4 cylinder car and leave the V8 and V6 cars alone.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #178
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Dashing through the slow

in a V8 Chevrolet

Down the straights we go

laughing all the way!

Wheels and engines sing

making spirits bright

Oh what fun it is to ride in a Chevrolet tonight!


OH V8 sales, V8 sales, V8’s all the way

oh what fun it is to ride in a V8 Chevrolay ay!

V8 sales, V8 sales, V8’s all the way

oh what fun it is to ride in a V 8 CHEV- RO - LAAAAAYYYYYY!!!

You tell 'em Al
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #179
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Oh, that is a good one. I might have to borrow & repost that!
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:58 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Dashing through the slow

in a V8 Chevrolet

Down the straights we go

laughing all the way!

Wheels and engines sing

making spirits bright

Oh what fun it is to ride in a Chevrolet tonight!


OH V8 sales, V8 sales, V8’s all the way

oh what fun it is to ride in a V8 Chevrolay ay!

V8 sales, V8 sales, V8’s all the way

oh what fun it is to ride in a V 8 CHEV- RO - LAAAAAYYYYYY!!!

You tell 'em Al
I like it Doc, I'm stealing this.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:51 PM   #181
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I like it Doc, I'm stealing this.
+1
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:48 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
Dashing through the slow

in a V8 Chevrolet

Down the straights we go

laughing all the way!

Wheels and engines sing

making spirits bright

Oh what fun it is to ride in a Chevrolet tonight!


OH V8 sales, V8 sales, V8’s all the way

oh what fun it is to ride in a V8 Chevrolay ay!

V8 sales, V8 sales, V8’s all the way

oh what fun it is to ride in a V 8 CHEV- RO - LAAAAAYYYYYY!!!

You tell 'em Al
That made me think of this song I used to play in my old S10 Blazer
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