[autocross]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Well, as others have said, this (V6) engine is already well optimized. There really isn't much room for gains. It already has a good intake, so a cold-air intake won't add much (but it will make it look nicer). The exhaust manifold is built into the head, so you can't do headers. You can get a ported throttle body, but that won't add much (just help the throttle feel). Plus, if you go with turbos, you end up with about the same HP as the V8 in the SS. And for the price you would pay for the two turbos, intercoolers, etc., you could have just went with the V8 in the first place, and have a warranty. Not to mention, the ATS-V has a 3.6L V6 twin-turbo, but it uses liquid cooled secondary side intercoolers (charge-air coolers). If you want to go that route, it will cost you even more. You may want to look into an E85 tune (if you have the fuel available nearby). That could get you some good gains for the money.

So, the question is, what SPECIFICALLY are you looking for? Cam and/or heads? Intake manifold? Turbo kit? Supercharger kit? Porting the heads/manifold? Stroking the engine?

If it were me, and I wanted the lighter weight of the V6, and wanted significant gains, I would probably look into supercharging it. Much less plumbing than turbos, so it would be much easier to fit, and you can get some significant gains. Plus, it's not outrageously expensive (comparatively speaking).

I supercharged my trucks V6, not gonna go that route again. Although the supercharger itself is cheaper, you’ll make that cost up quickly in fuel economy. The supercharger is causing drag on the engine 24/7, and it’s working harder all the time. That has taken my toyota down to less than 13 in town (no boosting)... Toyota’s are usually very efficient.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by autocross

I supercharged my trucks V6, not gonna go that route again. Although the supercharger itself is cheaper, you’ll make that cost up quickly in fuel economy. The supercharger is causing drag on the engine 24/7, and it’s working harder all the time. That has taken my toyota down to less than 13 in town (no boosting)... Toyota’s are usually very efficient.

Yes, superchargers are not known as a fuel efficiency device. Turbos are better for FE, but you have to deal with turbo-lag and non-linearity. Not a big deal for some. The hard part with turbos is running all the plumbing. If it were an inline engine (like an inline 4 or BMW inline 6), it could be easier, but with a V6, it's a lot of plumbing. Especially if you want an intercooler (which most folks who turbo want).

You can save some money with the turbo route if you can do the work yourself. It definitely helps if you enjoy wrenching on your car too. But if you pay someone else to do the work, it adds up quick.

In the end of the day, the LGX is a pretty damn good and efficient engine. It's hard to improve on it without some major surgery and perhaps major $$$. And in the end of the day, if you go twin turbo and intercoolers, you will end up with about the same HP numbers as the V8 at about the same price or more. And you will be adding more weight to the front of the car. Plus, you probably want to get the upgraded cooling and braking package for the V6. That adds weight too. You might as well just buy the SS at that point. That's why most folks don't bother.

Plus, the SS comes with a bunch more performance stuff than just a V8 engine. The suspension is upgraded, available MRC, larger transmissions, more cooling, Track Mode, more available aftermarket mods, etc... Not to mention the awesome throttle response of an N/A V8 as compared to a boosted 6. Oh yeah, and then there is the sound of a N/A V8 compared to a turbo'd V6. No comparison there.

You could always buy an ATS-V. It comes with a 465HP twin-turbo 3.6L V6 from the factory with a warranty in the Alpha Chassis. This is what it sounds like you want anyway. Then when you want to do mods, there is more room to mod because of the turbos...

[autocross]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Yes, superchargers are not known as a fuel efficiency device. Turbos are better for FE, but you have to deal with turbo-lag and non-linearity. Not a big deal for some. The hard part with turbos is running all the plumbing. If it were an inline engine (like an inline 4 or BMW inline 6), it could be easier, but with a V6, it's a lot of plumbing. Especially if you want an intercooler (which most folks who turbo want).

You can save some money with the turbo route if you can do the work yourself. It definitely helps if you enjoy wrenching on your car too. But if you pay someone else to do the work, it adds up quick.

In the end of the day, the LGX is a pretty damn good and efficient engine. It's hard to improve on it without some major surgery and perhaps major $$$. And in the end of the day, if you go twin turbo and intercoolers, you will end up with about the same HP numbers as the V8 at about the same price or more. And you will be adding more weight to the front of the car. Plus, you probably want to get the upgraded cooling and braking package for the V6. That adds weight too. You might as well just buy the SS at that point. That's why most folks don't bother.

Plus, the SS comes with a bunch more performance stuff than just a V8 engine. The suspension is upgraded, available MRC, larger transmissions, more cooling, Track Mode, more available aftermarket mods, etc... Not to mention the awesome throttle response of an N/A V8 as compared to a boosted 6. Oh yeah, and then there is the sound of a N/A V8 compared to a turbo'd V6. No comparison there.

You could always buy an ATS-V. It comes with a 465HP twin-turbo 3.6L V6 from the factory with a warranty in the Alpha Chassis. This is what it sounds like you want anyway. Then when you want to do mods, there is more room to mod because of the turbos...

Where would you find aesthetic modifications for the camaro? No, I’m not one of those R.I.C.E (race inspired cosmetic enhancements) people, but I would love to emphasize the aggressiveness of the car. I’ve been having a little trouble finding a good place for parts comparable to american muscle for the mustangs. Is there a good site to also find suspensuon components?

I might just bite the bullet and go with the SS. The car will handle about as well as the V6, especially if i put it on some coil overs. The V8 probably gets decent fuel economy when chugging around.

Would you guys recommend it with the auto or manual? If i opted for the manual, the skip shift would be my first mod. It would drive me nuts

[SinginHawk]

Originally Posted by autocross

Where would you find aesthetic modifications for the camaro? No, I’m not one of those R.I.C.E (race inspired cosmetic enhancements) people, but I would love to emphasize the aggressiveness of the car. I’ve been having a little trouble finding a good place for parts comparable to american muscle for the mustangs. Is there a good site to also find suspensuon components?

I might just bite the bullet and go with the SS. The car will handle about as well as the V6, especially if i put it on some coil overs. The V8 probably gets decent fuel economy when chugging around.

Would you guys recommend it with the auto or manual? If i opted for the manual, the skip shift would be my first mod. It would drive me nuts

I'd suggest an SS if you're undecided. You won't regret an SS, but you MIGHT regret a V6 (I don't, but then again I wasn't undecided).

Go automatic if you won't miss shifting your own gears.

Get a used Camaro if the cost is an issue. New cars are for the wealthy. You could also possibly switch cars down the line with less depreciation on whatever you do decide to get now.

[red_johnny]

Originally Posted by SinginHawk

I'd suggest an SS if you're undecided. You won't regret an SS, but you MIGHT regret a V6 (I don't, but then again I wasn't undecided).

Go automatic if you won't miss shifting your own gears.

Get a used Camaro if the cost is an issue. New cars are for the wealthy. You could also possibly switch cars down the line with less depreciation on whatever you do decide to get now.

Good advice!

Originally Posted by autocross

No, I’m not one of those R.I.C.E (race inspired cosmetic enhancements) people

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by autocross

Where would you find aesthetic modifications for the camaro? No, I’m not one of those R.I.C.E (race inspired cosmetic enhancements) people, but I would love to emphasize the aggressiveness of the car. I’ve been having a little trouble finding a good place for parts comparable to american muscle for the mustangs. Is there a good site to also find suspensuon components?

I might just bite the bullet and go with the SS. The car will handle about as well as the V6, especially if i put it on some coil overs. The V8 probably gets decent fuel economy when chugging around.

Would you guys recommend it with the auto or manual? If i opted for the manual, the skip shift would be my first mod. It would drive me nuts

I don't really know much about the cosmetic enhancements, but I do know that BMR makes some susupension and chassis stuff for the Camaro. Here's a link:
https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=...s&vehicleid=26

Coil overs may help the handling, but probably not too much, unless you go extreme. Meaning, faster and lower springs, coil overs, stiffer sways, etc. DSSV's would be even better.

But I would recommend the Magnetic Ride Control. The SS with MRC stays very planted in the turns. There is so little body movement, it will be tough to improve on. Remember, the MRC is not just for comfort, it also enhances performance. The computer can tell the difference between slow transitions due to driver input from fast transitions caused by road imperfections. So, when you brake hard, for example, the computer knows you slammed on the brakes, and can sense the slow transitions in the struts. It then stiffens up the front, and loosens up the rears to keep the car from nose-diving. If you hit a pothole while braking, the computer can tell that fast transition was not from driver input, and will loosen the damping to absorb the bump in that specific damper (usually the front one), then it stiffens back up after that wheel passes the bump. Next, it loosens up the rear damper once it hits the bump as well. Meaning, it will adjust to the conditions each damper individually 1000 times a second on each wheel individually. So it's as though you have both a stiff and soft suspension AT THE SAME TIME. So if you are flying around a corner near the limits of grip, and you hit a pothole, it won't upset the car. The car stays planted and flat in the turns, but absorbs the bump like it wasn't there. Keep in mind that this is a heavy car for a sport car. You would think that on the track you have to concentrate a lot on weight management, but with MRC, you don't. It keeps the car flat no matter what you throw at it. There is a reason they use this on the best supercars in the world. It's that good.

Can you improve on it? Yes and no. If your goal is to win a race, then yes, you can get some DSSV's or something and shave a few tenths on lap times. But no, because if you did, you will loose all comfort and the dual nature of MRC. But obviously, if you are going to upgrade the suspension, don't pay extra for the MRC if you're just going to rip it out and replace it.

But, I have the MRC, and on the track, it's outstanding. The car seems to read your mind, and just goes where you want it, how you want it. It's so easy to drive fast it's crazy. I feel like, if I put the car in track mode, and override the steering to touring, I could run the track with one hand on the wheel and my other arm around my girl and still win the race while chatting about our next vacation. I have had several instructors get out of my car after a session and tell me that they are going to look into getting a Camaro. One guy had a 911, and I said, "but you have a 911!", and he just said "yup."

As for fuel economy, it depends on where you drive. If you get on the highway, set the cruse control to 65, and the roads are flat without hills, you will get close to 30 MPG's. Anything else (city driving, hooning about, hills, etc.) you will get like 17 MPG's. If you go to the track, you will get like 8 MPG's. When I go to Delaware to my sister's house, I get 29 MPG's door to door. Most of the time (no highway driving at all, and tons of steep hills), I get about 18 or so.

Auto vs. manual is a very controversial topic, and really can only be answered by your own personal preference. But the manual is a great transmission with smooth shifting. Skip shift can be annoying, but like you said, there is a mod. The auto (I have the auto) is great, but there have been some issues with the transmission "shuddering". The fix most of the time is a fluid change. Sometimes it needs several fluid changes, sometimes it needs a new torque converter. I changed my trans fluid early (about 2500 miles), so I never had the issue, and if you get the auto, I recommend changing the fluid early but after break-in as a preventative. As for the auto's performance, it is a pretty good transmission. Very intelligent programming. It doesn't hunt for gears, and will also engine brake when you are going down a hill. The 1-2 shift can be a touch harsh at times. Not bad though. Paddle shifting when in track mode and on the track is good and predictable. Paddle shifting in touring mode while driving normally, there is a touch of delay when upshifting. Again, not terrible, but not DCT like. If you have a ton of stop and go traffic in a daily commute, get the auto. If you love rowing your own, and don't have much stop and go, get the manual. Both great choices.

[pjz1082]

Originally Posted by SinginHawk

I'd suggest an SS if you're undecided. You won't regret an SS, but you MIGHT regret a V6 (I don't, but then again I wasn't undecided).

Go automatic if you won't miss shifting your own gears.

Get a used Camaro if the cost is an issue. New cars are for the wealthy. You could also possibly switch cars down the line with less depreciation on whatever you do decide to get now.

I agree with everything here BUT depending on your credit it can sometimes be harder to finance a less expensive used car than buying a new one. This is what I fell into. Banks wouldn't finance me on a $15k used loan but would on a $28k new car loan. Makes a lot of sense, right? LOL

[autocross]

What’s your guys’s opinion on the mustangs age bracket vs the camaros. I just went to a japanese car meet (I have a tricked out japanese SUV), and there were tons of WRX’s and EVOS of course, but I saw a big group of people all at one side. I heard lots of revving and popping. When I went over there, I saw 3 ecoboost mustangs with their hoods up. All of they were owned by 20 something year olds. They all had big turbos, aftermarket intercooler, and looked completely built. I talked to one owner, he was really cool.

Do you think the mustangs are attracting the younger crowd? It seems as though the camaro drives better, but why are the ‘tuners’ picking the mustang over the camaro?

I understand why the japanese tuners are looking at american though, it’s because there’s no new japanese cars to really mess around with anymore. Type r? sure but yuck

[SinginHawk]

Originally Posted by autocross

What’s your guys’s opinion on the mustangs age bracket vs the camaros. I just went to a japanese car meet (I have a tricked out japanese SUV), and there were tons of WRX’s and EVOS of course, but I saw a big group of people all at one side. I heard lots of revving and popping. When I went over there, I saw 3 ecoboost mustangs with their hoods up. All of they were owned by 20 something year olds. They all had big turbos, aftermarket intercooler, and looked completely built. I talked to one owner, he was really cool.

Do you think the mustangs are attracting the younger crowd? It seems as though the camaro drives better, but why are the ‘tuners’ picking the mustang over the camaro?

I understand why the japanese tuners are looking at american though, it’s because there’s no new japanese cars to really mess around with anymore. Type r? sure but yuck

The current generation Mustang is much more popular than the Camaro, likely due to cheaper mid-range prices and better advertising. The sales speak for themselves.

More often than not, people pick the mustang over the camaro if they don't care one way or the other, by the numbers.

If you're looking to see what the youth is up to, you can check hashtags on Instagram and see how many posts there are for each of the modern muscle cars.

#mustang: 8.4 million posts.
#camaro: 3.6 million posts.
#challenger: 1.8 million posts.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by autocross

Do you think the mustangs are attracting the younger crowd? It seems as though the camaro drives better, but why are the ‘tuners’ picking the mustang over the camaro?

I'm guessing that for most younger people, "drives better" isn't as easily recognized or as highly valued as power and engine modification. On the one hand, you've got the promise of excitement with a certain amount of 'untamed wildness' . . . while on the other it's more about composure and precision.

Turbocharging has been treated a little differently by Ford - for them (when they were still offering the V6) the T-4 was given mid-level stature with the V6 being base, while Chevy went the other way with the NA V6 at the mid-level. Perhaps Chevy sees the mid-level Camaro as 'sporty' in a more traditional sports car sense than Ford saw the mid-level Mustang and made their engine choices accordingly???


Norm

[autocross]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm guessing that for most younger people, "drives better" isn't as easily recognized or as highly valued as power and engine modification. On the one hand, you've got the promise of excitement with a certain amount of 'untamed wildness' . . . while on the other it's more about composure and precision.

Turbocharging has been treated a little differently by Ford - for them (when they were still offering the V6) the T-4 was given mid-level stature with the V6 being base, while Chevy went the other way with the NA V6 at the mid-level. Perhaps Chevy sees the mid-level Camaro as 'sporty' in a more traditional sports car sense than Ford saw the mid-level Mustang and made their engine choices accordingly???


Norm

I wonder what they’d be looking at the mustang as then? I don’t even know how I view it. Currently i see it like all those japanese cars that people get to improve because they’re not perfect, but I could be totally missing the ball

[KirkH]

I get GM advertisement mailers all the time. I have never seen the Camaro on one of these mailers. It is always Silverado, Cruze, etc but never Camaro. Maybe its because they know I own one, but I never see advertising.

I live in KY. We have 2 Ford plants in Louisville. Mustangs are EVERYWHERE because of the employee and family pricing.

[enzia35]

Originally Posted by autocross

I supercharged my trucks V6, not gonna go that route again. Although the supercharger itself is cheaper, you’ll make that cost up quickly in fuel economy. The supercharger is causing drag on the engine 24/7, and it’s working harder all the time. That has taken my toyota down to less than 13 in town (no boosting)... Toyota’s are usually very efficient.

Lol, very efficient, with that Tundra getting low 10 mpgs. The Tacoma motor isn't much better.

[fla17ls1lev6]

The v6 will run 155 mph, while the v8 will run something like 167. If your stupid enough to drive that fast, you will be dead and i will drive right past you in my v6. V6 is perfect balance of great handling, decent gas mileage and cheap insurance, love my v6. Did that done that. as they say, i have owned stuff way faster than todays camero ss, back in the day, on a race track. The fun in a street car is handling not pure speed. If you are truely want a race car, run it at the track.