[Gunkk]

This thread is for discussing a new class of paint protection products which I hereby dub "Ceramic Sprays." I started this as a response to the thread on Adams Spray Ceramic but decided it might be worth it's own more general discussion.

Ceramic Sprays are a very recently launched (~Jan 2019) new class of products. They exist in the big price and performance gap between the modern Spray-N-Wipe Sealants and the full blown multi-hundred to multi-thousand dollar durable Ceramic Coatings.

Here's how I define each class, and some comments on their pros and cons...


Ceramic Coatings:
All "Ceramic Coatings" are solvent based and contain one or more forms of Siloxane (usually polydimethylsiloxane) that is modified to have a silica or metal oxide group at one end of the polymer chain and a paint-binding group at the other. Think of a soldier with with a helmet and sticky boots. When the coatings are applied to the car the "boots" bond to the paint (as long as nothing gets in their way), and the helmets up into the air. When done correctly you get all these millions of little soldiers all shoulder to shoulder front to back with arms interlocked, all lined up so all you see from 10,000 feet is a solid layer of helmets.

That slick oxide end of the polymer is what makes it tough, hard, and hydrophobic. The crystallized center layer makes it durable. And the sticky end bonds to the paint and makes it last.

Ceramic coatings are not water based, they are solvent based. The solvent prevents the polymer from crystallizing in the bottle and prematurely during application, but allows the polymer to cure in air once the solvent evaporates. Prior to curing, any contact with water or oxygen from air will wreck them as it will catalyze crystallization. Once a bottle of ceramic coating is opened the coating will start to go bad within days. If the cap is left off, this can start within hours.

We all know nothing in life is without tradeoffs. That same hard oxide that gives the wonderful hydrophobicity is also very mineral-philic... meaning that if hard water is left to dry on the coating, the minerals that we see as water spots can chemically bond to the coating's oxide and be difficult to remove without some strong acids (CLR, etc.).

So to summarize, Ceramic Coatings have the properties:

• 100% Solvent Based
• Some come with multi-year warranties when professionally applied
• Crystallize during curing and in the presence of air/oxygen
• Multi-year durability
• Application is tricky, flash off time is critical, and can make a mess on the paint if done wrong.
• Cure time up to a week.
• Cannot be applied in the presence of water
• MSRP of $1 to $2 per milliliter
• Require proper surface preparation (alcohol panel wipe, etc.)
• Prone to water spotting.

Spray-n-wipe sealants:
The Spray-n-wipe sealants class of modern paint protection coatings are almost always water based emulsions of blends of silicone and/or siloxane polymers (some with silica oxide polymer end-groups) and have a shelf life and pot life of many months. At the polymer level they can be similar in structure to the above ceramic coatings and so they can be similarly hydrophobic to ceramic coatings. But the films they produce are much thinner, do not bond to the paint chemically (covalently), and do not crystallize into neat rows of little soldiers with arms interlocked like ceramic coatings do.

In which case the service life for these kinds of spray sealants on a garaged daily driver can be a 2-3 weeks on the low side to about 3 months on the high side. Paint condition (oxidation) and prep are the main drivers. These spray sealants need to bond to the paint in order to reach the max service life. If there's an existing wax/coating/sealant or heavy oxidation on the paint, then it won't bond and service life may be days to weeks or just the first time it gets wet.

Yes the $20-40/liter spray-n-wipe sealants are a more modern/fancier/higher-tech version the old 1980's spray wax. They have some increased service longevity and don't haze on plastics, but they are NOT in the same class as the expensive class of $50+ for 50ml ceramic coatings.

To summarize, Spray-n-Wipe sealants have the properties:

• Water based
• Some can be applied to a wet car surface
• Service life of 3 months max.
• MSRP of $0.02 to $0.05 per millileter
• Do not crystallize on the car paint surface
• Less prone to water spotting
• Do not require advanced (alcohol wipe) panel prep
• No cure time.
• Hard to screw up during application.
• Do require a clean paint surface (oxidation free)

The New Class of Paint Protection "Ceramic Sprays"?:

When I started to do research on this new class of products, I went to the web pages of their vendors and looked at their marketing claims. Composition, features, and prices.

Many vendors selling sealants with "ceramic" in the product name (Meguiars) aren't selling "Ceramic sprays." They are selling Spray-n-Wipe sealants, and that's not this.


To me, this new class of products I call "Ceramic Sprays" has the properties:

• MSRP of $0.10 to $0.25 per milliliter
• Have a flash off/bonding time between initial application, and buff off. Similar to ceramic coatings.
• Have a cure time of hours to a day (vs. days to week for ceramics)
• Service life (claimed) of up to 8 months.
• Clay bar prep and alcohol wipe is required.
• Polish is recommended.
• Can't speak to composition yet (solvent or water), but I'll find out soon enough

I haven't used Adams ceramic spray yet but this new mid-range class of "Ceramic Sprays" is intriguing. Similar to but not quite as easy to apply as the other Spray-n-wipe sealants like Carpro Reload, but a claiming 6-8 months service life and 9H hardness certainly seems like a stretch.

In a sense, this product is similar in nature and application to RainX and some of the other solvent based silicone polymer sealants. But it has a (claimed) much greater service life of several months.



Calling out Adams for questionable product differentiation:
I'm a repeat Adams customer and I like their car shampoo, but even good companies with good products can push their luck and make mistakes sometimes.

IMO, Adams needs to tone down the big "Same as a Ceramic" sell and instead market their product as a new advanced DIY solution. Slot it nicely in between the lower end sealants and multi thousand dollar professionally applied coatings. 2-3x better service life than Spray-n-wipe sealants with only a little more prep work.

Adams web page: https://adamspolishes.com/shop/speci...g-9h-16oz.html has the claim:

Introducing Adam’s Ceramic Spray Coating, a game changing product in the ceramic coating world. At a registered 9H Hardness, Adam’s Ceramic Spray Coating is the easiest and fastest way to ceramic coat your vehicle and add unbelievable shine and gloss to your finish.

That and the large section on Ceramic Coatings below this claim is pushing the limit of good-faith marketing by leading the consumer into thinking they're going to have a Ceramic Coated car with all the long-term, high durability benefits that the expensive coatings deliver for DIY at one fiftieth to one one-hundredth the cost of professionally applied Ceramic Coatings.

In fairness, Adams do clearly state at the top of the page that the service life is 6-8 months, which is clearly much less than the 2+ years claimed by others. They offer no warranty. They do claim 9H hardness and acid-resistance albeit without providing data.

So I think for a professional detailer or "educated consumer" such as myself it is fairly safe to believe that we're not going to get full-on polydimethylsiloxane crystallized Ceramic Coating with TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR PER LITER performance and multi-year durability from a two-hundred dollar per liter or the same a twenty per liter spray bottle.

But sketchy/overblown marketing claims aside, this new class of product is intriguing. A little more prep and application effort for 2-3x the service life. Enough possibly for a single summer driving season for our friends up north.

If I were a ceramic coating company like Gyeon, Feynlab or Gtechniq, I'd be wondering if I should be filing a complaint with the FTC while I'm scrambling to get a hold of some and develop my own "middle grade" Ceramic Spray.

$10 to "wax your ride" for the entire summer seems like a damn good deal!


Putting my money where my mouth is:
For me, Reload lasts about 3 months on my Genesis daily driver (prep: wash and clay) until the beading performance starts to fail. We'll see how Adams new Ceramic Spray holds up at 4x the price of Reload. Will it last 4x as long?

Well I just dropped $40 ish and ordered an 8oz bottle of ACS to arrive in about a week. I'll do an A/B test over the next few months vs. Reload on my Genesis DD daily driver and report back.

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8 month follow-up:

Adams Ceramic Spray did indeed last 4x as long as Reload on my DD.

Final pic at the 8mo mark is here:
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=76

I was fully skeptical with their claims given that everyone and their brother had hopped on the Ceramic bandwagon at that point, but in my case the ACS held up. It wasn't just marketing hype!

[Glen e]

Good write up.

[SSShark]

Awesome information. Thank you so much for this write up!

[SSport16]

Definitely let us know the results...for me Reload is very good for me, lasts about 6 months for me, beads up real well and it is real easy to clean after a heavy rain. Think a lot of is just marketing and we right now are at a time where everything is pretty much the same, just different labels.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Ceramic coatings have come a long way in ease of application since the original opti-coat came out.

They have many now that actually "self level", and require very little wiping to remove any high spots left over. Optimum Gloss Coat is a good example, and many others have followed in it's footsteps.

Many of the newer versions are also much less prone to water spotting, and many that do have this issue, can be remedied by topping the coating with a silica based sealant.

I can't speak for the new Adams product, as I don't have it, and have never used it, but most all detailing companies mis-label their products.

There are waxes that are sealants (Colinite 845, Megs Ultimate), coatings that are sealants (Sonus Ion paint coating), glazes that are sealants (CG Blacklight), just to name a few.

It's just marketing hype. That is how they sell products.

Interested to see the durability of the new Adams product.

[Gunkk]

The Adams Ceramic Spray arrived last evening. I was surprised to discover that it's ammonia based, and pretty strongly at that. So it might be an amino-siloxane based coating using a delivery chemistry similar to the process Dow Corning patented in 2017: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20170096533.pdf

Amino-<stuff>-polysiloxanes are what most durable ceramic and hydrophobic coatings are made of. But they all require solvent carriers for delivery. So this new Adams coating definitely seems in between the hard core ceramics and emulsion based sealants.

While quite stanky, using ammonia brings a few benefits. Ammonia being very high pH may aid in film adhesion by aiding dissolution of any surface contamination. It may also help reduce paint surface oxidation. And using ammonia instead of a solvent allows Adams to avoid the 3.5oz DOT restriction per container on shipping flammable liquids.

So it makes complete sense why zoutlawss had to open his garage door when applying in his vid the other thread. This stuff will not be something you want to use indoors.

It will be a few days before I can get in on the DD, stay tuned.

[SnakeEyeSS]

I see these lasting much longer on the low side. A good quick test, I went back and watched this guy's first impressions and he was doubtful at first too(as was I, Meguiar's Paint Protect was a huge disappoinment of a product IMO,) Then he started trying to remove them:

https://youtu.be/bRiHwSwlSns

And remember, 50 years ago no one would have believed a few dollars of "wax" could withstand an acid rain. Technological advancements happen, hopefully these live up to the hype.

[Gunkk]

I applied the Adams Ceramic Spray to the passenger side of my DD Genesis with Reload to the driver side in a true A-B test.

Safety first:
I took a look at the attached MSDS sheet for the Adams Ceramic Spray and it shows no Ammonia, which I found surprising, but perhaps that's just my old nose. It also shows very high concentrations of Octa-methyl-cyclo-siloxane and Deca-methyl-cyclo-siloxane, which I haven't seen much in other products, so it certainly is new and not a rehash of existing chemistries.


Prep:
Washed with Adams shampoo, clay barred the car with a Nanoskin sponge, and towel dried. Last time I put any kind of coating on my DD was Reload a year ago, and I can confidently say that there was no coating on the car... after the wash, a hose rinse left a solid sheet of water on the hood, no beading whatsoever. This is a 7 year old daily driver and while the paint has held up really well, it could probably use a good full-monty paint correction.

I did not polish the panel before applying coatings. No alcohol prep for the Reload, and I put it on the car immediately after wash and towel dry.

Then I let the car sit a couple hours in the garage to let any remaining moisture evaporate off the car. It's pollen season here, so prior to alcohol prep, I gave the car a quick wipe with a 500 GSM plush MF towel like these to remove any dust and pollen. On the Adams Ceramic Spray side I did do an alcohol panel prep (straight isopropanol) prior to application.


Application:
Reload was done at full strength using a plush MF towel. Sprayed the towel and wiped on a 1/2 panel at a time. Then flipped to a dry side to wipe back off the excess.

For the Adams I a cheap low pile MF towel like these. Folded it down to about 3"x 3" and made a little mushroom shaped applicator out of it. I sprayed a half dozen squrts of Adams CS onto the MF applicator and wiped on cross-hatch style about 1/2 panel at a time. It flashed almost immediately (75F ambient) and formed a rainbow film. After 90 seconds I came back and wiped it off with a fresh plush MF towel. I was expecting it to be difficult to remove but it wiped off very easily.


Conclusions so far:
Reload can be applied when the car is still wet, Adams Ceramic Spray cannot. So the Adams cannot be used as a drying aid. Other than making sure the car is completely dry and doing the alcohol prep (which takes incrementally all of ~5 minutes), applying the Adams to paint and glass was a breeze. Much easier than I expected.

Visually both sides look the exact same with a nice glossy shine. Tactile impressions: Adams is a little less "oily" feeling than Reload, but much slicker than 7 year old paint.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by SnakeEyeSS

Then he started trying to remove them

Yes "tenacity under agitation" is another property many of these new coatings seem to have. More specifically it seems that if you can get these polymers through whatever boundary layer exists on the surface, they will bond, even after initial application. Watching the guy in that video mechanically polish the panel only to see it retain a good bit of it's hydrophobic surface reminds me of how Hydro2 sticks better when more hose pressure us used.

We'll see how well the Adams holds up.

[441bertre]

Thank you for the great write up!

My friend mentioned to me last night about trying a ceramic spray, I'm just not 100% sold on the ceramic coatings and now sprays. I did apply Adam's Ceramic Wheel Coating on my 1LE wheels so I'm hoping it helps with cleaning the Brembo dust in between washes.

[JeffFox]

Very informative thread. As I read your post a fresh layer of ice and snow has just fallen from the Wisconsin sky. My Camaro sits covered in the garage awaiting spring. When I bring it out I'LL make use of all the things I learned on the forum from posts like yours. FYI I am not as advanced a detailer as yourself or Glen. I did use Glen's guide to apply Reload prior to storing the car. Perhaps I"ll try something more advanced this summer. Thanks for the great thread 👍. I" ll check back to see how your comparison goes.

[SnakeEyeSS]

I found multiple videos showing chemical resistance. Nothing seems to survive more than 2 applications, but then again, who is spraying chemicals on your car unless you are prepping it anyway.

It's interesting how the difference brands resist different chemicals, some resist paint cleaners but fail to mild all purpose cleaners, while others the opposite is true.

Only found one YouTube guy( FAB Automotive) that seems like he will actually post regular updates under normal use(and looks like he parks outside).
https://youtu.be/Lox3j0vTXv8

I was thinking of doing it myself, but looking at my stuff I need to use up plenty of old products, so Meguiar's Hybrid is only on my Camaro.

[SSShark]

Applied Adam's Ceramic Spray coating last weekend. Here is a video of the first wash after applying. The paint is incredibly slick and hydrophobic.
https://youtu.be/ob8yEdVpQhs

[SnakeEyeSS]

I just ordered some of the Rag Company towels, are they really THAT good?


If anyone watched the DPC videos blasting HCW, WaxMode did a comparison.
https://youtu.be/5LoI-gE8Jgs