[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

Makes you wonder what in the world went wrong. That same Novi 1500 head unit made 800 wheel on a 5th Gen 1LE with a cam headers and fuel+meth so its was not a lack of air from the blower. The customer support is what it is and is shitty ro hear this.

Yes the blower itself should be capable of much more power than advertised for this kit. Makes me wonder why my kit was so weak and also that Corvette's was just about as bad as mine. The whole point of my post was to let the OP know the truth, which is, when you hot rod, there's a chance it will break, and there's also a chance that you won't get the gains/results that are advertised or talked about on the internet. Most of my complaints obviously revolved around ECS because that is who I personally had the poor experience with, but obviously it's possible to receive these poor results or poor customer service from another company as well. I did mention there was an Edelbrock customer here who got underwhelming results, pretty similar to mine I think. We've also seen 1 or 2 forum members have their Whipples physically break. I seem to recall there was a Procharger customer on the forum who was not happy with his kit either. Buying a supercharger really is rolling the dice. Might be happy, might be pissed off.

[JFM-jr]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Yes the blower itself should be capable of much more power than advertised for this kit. Makes me wonder why my kit was so weak and also that Corvette's was just about as bad as mine. The whole point of my post was to let the OP know the truth, which is, when you hot rod, there's a chance it will break, and there's also a chance that you won't get the gains/results that are advertised or talked about on the internet. Most of my complaints obviously revolved around ECS because that is who I personally had the poor experience with, but obviously it's possible to receive these poor results or poor customer service from another company as well. I did mention there was an Edelbrock customer here who got underwhelming results, pretty similar to mine I think. We've also seen 1 or 2 forum members have their Whipples physically break. I seem to recall there was a Procharger customer on the forum who was not happy with his kit either. Buying a supercharger really is rolling the dice. Might be happy, might be pissed off.

Its funny you bring all of this up as its something I never really considered as a possibility. 100 RWHP is 2/3 the expexted result.

[KingLT1]

So you dyno'd 395whp before and 482 after on the same dyno in similar conditions?

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

Its funny you bring all of this up as its something I never really considered as a possibility. 100 RWHP is 2/3 the expexted result.

The internet seems to paint a mostly-rosy picture of supercharger kits. I felt the truth about hot rodding should be pointed out to the OP BEFORE he spends his money. Just so he has more of an idea what he might be in for.

If my kit had done what it was supposed to do for % gain, my dyno result would have been around 545hp. Which means it was over 60hp below par. Should have gained 150hp, actually gained 87hp.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

So you dyno'd 395whp before and 482 after on the same dyno in similar conditions?

Same dyno, SAE corrected. Conditions were not the same, was cooler for the stock pulls, so the stock pull correction factor was a minus and the supercharged pull correction factor was a plus. I did try the car on the dragstrip, in cooler air than the dyno pull was in, and confirmed that it was very slow, so it absolutely was not making anywhere near mid-500s for hp, not by a long shot. Car was easily 6mph slower than it should have been, I am not nit-picking here, the thing was WAY off what it was supposed to be.

[KingLT1]

wow that is crazy. who did the tune?

[Drsagacity]

I had a Procharger on two Corvettes and have opted for a Magnuson blower for the Camaro.

1. Results are based on lbs of boost. On this forum, we have people discussing results and leaving out the most important characteristic, lbs of boost. In other words, to compare apples to apples, always ask what boost they are running. Some people will provide misleading information as they display the stock rwhp numbers and do not discuss boost levels. In other words, comparing a Procharger at 10-12psi vs a Magnuson at 7-8psi. The more boost you run, the more risk you are taking...but the more power you will get. What is more important is the torque curve and Hp curve characteristics and that takes me into point 2. There are pro’s and cons for each configuration.

2. All of the major manufacturers are good choices, but it comes down to your plans...where do you want to end up? As an example, my first go around, I went Procharger and didn’t understand that to stay in the powerband I also needed to add gears and a converter (on my auto) and I needed gears (on my m6). These changes made stock drivability not ideal. Because of my previous experience, I started with my end goal in mind and want to avoid some of the mistakes I made last time around. Because I didn’t have a clear outcome in mind, I learned by making mistakes.

My advice is to think through your goals then it becomes pretty straight forward. As an example, are you looking to have a great streetcar that can destroy pretty much everything on the road, your decision is different than if you want to build a track car. Building a track car will have different results if you are thinking quarter mile vs road course.

[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

THIS

Go into it with your eyes open, as some people's cars run and run, and some of them break. There is no guarantee with hot rodding. Yes you could buy a kit with a warranty and HOPE they honor it if it breaks, but the fact is, they might not do so.

As far as what brand of supercharger you might want, I'd suggest doing a LOT of research on them before plunking any money down. Most of the reviews on this site are positive but I'll let you in on another fact, which is, they do not always work as advertised. The reason I think you should be aware of this possibility (sub-par performance) is because, when you spend thousands of dollars for a supercharger kit, you justifiably expect to get a 'wow' feeling when you floor the throttle. I know there was at least one person on the forum who's posted low power with a blower (Edelbrock I think it was?), and I'll mention now that I've also had that experience with an ECS/Paxton/Vortech kit. To clarify, when I'm saying low power on an LT1 here, I mean under 500hp supercharged, when the kits are advertised at 550~580hp. So 10% or more below advertised, I am not nit-picking here, I'm talking large discrepancies. The same shop that dyno tested my car also tested an ECS-equipped C7 LT1 which was under 500hp, so I was certainly not alone with the poor performance I got. Same shop again, got over 600hp with a Whipple on a 6th gen Camaro LT1 (with long tube headers). That last example is to show it's not a case of 'heartbreaker' dyno going on, it's a case of poor gains from the ECS supercharger. My SS was 395/482 stock vs ECS supercharged, and the C7 was 403 stock and 490s ECS supercharged. The ECS site showed the Gen6 Camaro LT1 as 398/550 stock vs ECS supercharged. So the ECS kit is supposed to gain around 38% in hp and our cars only got around a 22~23% gain. I ended up removing the kit from my car, disgusted for sure. BTW I must mention that tech support from ECS was ZERO while I was installing the kit. They failed to call me back or email me back at all when I asked a couple of questions. I did call Vortech (due to already-mentioned total lack of tech support from ECS) and asked them what these cog pulleys (tooth counts) should do for boost, and they told me 7 to 7 and a half pounds. I saw as much as 153.5kpa on my MAP sensor (at shift point) while I had the kit on, which is in the ballpark. So while the boost was a little less than the 8psi that the ECS site seems to suggest the kit will make, it's not far enough off to really explain why it's down over 60hp from where it should be.

The engine seems to run ok back in normally-aspirated form so it probably was not significantly damaged by the supercharger. Have installed a catch can and not getting much oil in there, whereas if the ring lands were broken then I'd expect a significant amount of blowby. When the supercharger did so poorly I had to wonder if it had hurt the engine, but that does not seem to be the case.

Obviously problems can occur with any brand, like I said, do a lot of research, and still, there's no real guarantee that you will get the advertised results, or have no problems, if you do buy one. The reason I'm saying you should be patient and research is because I had only seen good reviews of ECS before I bought my kit. Now in the real world, ECS kits are 0 for 2 on LT1s that I've seen with my own eyes as far as performing even close to advertised, and the customer support that I (didn't) receive could only be considered shamefully bad. Obviously, the truth about other brands could be different than most internet chatter says as well.

I definitely feel bad for you regarding your poor experience with this kit but all I can say that has not been my experience with ECS or this kit.

My car was the one ECS used for testing (featured on the website) and the car has been rock solid so far no complaints.

As far as power I was right at 550rwhp/510rwtq at ~7psi on 93oct (you are correct doesn't really reach 8 psi but gets close on the base pulley). We all felt that for a 100% Bone Stock A8 SS to go from 398/389 to 550/510 with nothing else other than a set of new spark plugs/this kit+tuning was what we were hoping for and was not bad at all. Also I've trapped 126 mph a few times so again its doing work in the real world just fine for how conservatively its tuned currently (LT4 fuel system going in soon).

Again I think it sucks you had issues with this setup and wish you the best of luck with whatever new direction you decide to go in

-Jon

[Blue0169]

Mr Supersport18,
My 2016 2ss is at Lingenfelter right now getting a Magnuson blower and American Racing Headers. They assure me that engine life will be based on how you drive - Just like if the engine stayed stock. If you beat it up, things will break. Drive it with some self control and it will last for years. I get it back roughly The first week of may. I'll give updates once I get it back. Can't wait!

[Blue0169]

Originally Posted by mr.supersport18

Hey guys, i just bought a 2018 camaro 2ss 6 speed manual and it feels really slow even after i broke it in. It just doesn’t have the punch i was expecting. My question is what is the chance of engine failure if i get it supercharged? What brand Supercharger should i go with? Please give me some info, thanks.

Mr Supersport18,
My 2016 2ss is at Lingenfelter right now getting a Magnuson blower and American Racing Headers. They assure me that engine life will be based on how you drive - Just like if the engine stayed stock. If you beat it up, things will break. Drive it with some self control and it will last for years. I get it back roughly The first week of may. I'll give updates once I get it back. Can't wait!

[brettman]

Well, I'll throw my worthless two cents in here. I am a firm believer that a stock
block is good (safe) to 10 LBS of boost. I have NOT dealt with the (stock SS) fuel systems yet. But we all know: Alt, Tune, Driving style,....etc are just a few factors
in longevity of motor life. On the upside, my stock LT1 block with the mods (SC, headers, CAI and correct tune) has made a world of difference. I wish I could support this with numbers. However the dyno pulls were worthless as were the info. (scam, soon to be corrected)

When guys sit in the passager side and some drive it. (motorheads)
And state: HOLY CRAP, I think it works..lol.

[Daves1SS]

I was the edelbrock guy that got such mediocre results, and the reason was the sky high IAT’s. It was summer and I had raced a corvette on the way to the dyno. Then got there and shut the car off for an hour with the hood up. Then it was my turn to dyno, and inside the dyno room it was hot with a tiny fan. Car put down like 495 whp until the third run when we literally put a leaf blower pointed towards the IAT sensor to get the IAT’s down some. Then it pulled like 511.

A year later I went back in silmilar conditions and it did 530 on back to back pulls, but with plugs only gapped at .032” (too tight and suppressing power) but with the killer chiller installed to control IAT’s so there wouldn’t be so much timing pulled like the first dyno session.

The edelbrock IAT sensor location is in the hottest location they could find, and really caused the car to dial back power when it’s hot out. In the summer, without a killer chiller, my car feels WAY down on power versus when it’s under 75-80 degrees out, especially in city traffic which is all my car sees. Now when it’s under 75 out, the car is fast and always puts a big smile on my face.

That’s why the killer chiller is such a benefit to maintaining good power in the summer, at least with an edelbrock car with their tune anyway.

[Epx998]

I hear too wide a grin can rip your face apart, so there's that.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

THIS

Go into it with your eyes open, as some people's cars run and run, and some of them break. There is no guarantee with hot rodding. Yes you could buy a kit with a warranty and HOPE they honor it if it breaks, but the fact is, they might not do so.

As far as what brand of supercharger you might want, I'd suggest doing a LOT of research on them before plunking any money down. Most of the reviews on this site are positive but I'll let you in on another fact, which is, they do not always work as advertised. The reason I think you should be aware of this possibility (sub-par performance) is because, when you spend thousands of dollars for a supercharger kit, you justifiably expect to get a 'wow' feeling when you floor the throttle. I know there was at least one person on the forum who's posted low power with a blower (Edelbrock I think it was?), and I'll mention now that I've also had that experience with an ECS/Paxton/Vortech kit. To clarify, when I'm saying low power on an LT1 here, I mean under 500hp supercharged, when the kits are advertised at 550~580hp. So 10% or more below advertised, I am not nit-picking here, I'm talking large discrepancies. The same shop that dyno tested my car also tested an ECS-equipped C7 LT1 which was under 500hp, so I was certainly not alone with the poor performance I got. Same shop again, got over 600hp with a Whipple on a 6th gen Camaro LT1 (with long tube headers). That last example is to show it's not a case of 'heartbreaker' dyno going on, it's a case of poor gains from the ECS supercharger. My SS was 395/482 stock vs ECS supercharged, and the C7 was 403 stock and 490s ECS supercharged. The ECS site showed the Gen6 Camaro LT1 as 398/550 stock vs ECS supercharged. So the ECS kit is supposed to gain around 38% in hp and our cars only got around a 22~23% gain. I ended up removing the kit from my car, disgusted for sure. BTW I must mention that tech support from ECS was ZERO while I was installing the kit. They failed to call me back or email me back at all when I asked a couple of questions. I did call Vortech (due to already-mentioned total lack of tech support from ECS) and asked them what these cog pulleys (tooth counts) should do for boost, and they told me 7 to 7 and a half pounds. I saw as much as 153.5kpa on my MAP sensor (at shift point) while I had the kit on, which is in the ballpark. So while the boost was a little less than the 8psi that the ECS site seems to suggest the kit will make, it's not far enough off to really explain why it's down over 60hp from where it should be.

The engine seems to run ok back in normally-aspirated form so it probably was not significantly damaged by the supercharger. Have installed a catch can and not getting much oil in there, whereas if the ring lands were broken then I'd expect a significant amount of blowby. When the supercharger did so poorly I had to wonder if it had hurt the engine, but that does not seem to be the case.

Obviously problems can occur with any brand, like I said, do a lot of research, and still, there's no real guarantee that you will get the advertised results, or have no problems, if you do buy one. The reason I'm saying you should be patient and research is because I had only seen good reviews of ECS before I bought my kit. Now in the real world, ECS kits are 0 for 2 on LT1s that I've seen with my own eyes as far as performing even close to advertised, and the customer support that I (didn't) receive could only be considered shamefully bad. Obviously, the truth about other brands could be different than most internet chatter says as well.

I am sorry to hear of your bad experience, but I do disagree with your assessment of the industry and percentage of Low power units.

I can assure you that your installer or tuner or both missed something, we specialize in fixing these kind of problems.

I had an ECS supercharged car come to my shop for a tune, we went over the install fixed a few things that were installer error and tuned it to 598 RWHP on 93 octane fuel.

The supercharger kits are solid, it is the install and tune that can make or break the kits.

We have never had a lower power output without being able to find the culprit and fixing it on the spot.

If we can every be of assistance give us a shot.

Ted.