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Old 04-12-2018, 06:56 PM   #57
DevilsReject97
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Originally Posted by Matos1LE View Post
Here's a previous gen ZR1, rated 20 hp more than the Huracan and weighing less. Watch the Huracan smoke it, all it took was AWD and DCT. Not more power.

LMAO...you're going to compare an AWD car (Which is why it won) vs. a RWD car that costs an easy 70k cheaper...

Not to mention the fact that the Huracan is mid-engine with virtually all of its weight centered around the mid/rear of the car... It's a no-brainer it will win... we didnt even need the video..
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:12 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
LMAO...you're going to compare an AWD car (Which is why it won) vs. a RWD car that costs an easy 70k cheaper...

Not to mention the fact that the Huracan is mid-engine with virtually all of its weight centered around the mid/rear of the car... It's a no-brainer it will win... we didnt even need the video..
Did you read any of the preceding conversation? Better chassis/drivetrain development trumping hp was the point of my argument, thank you for agreeing. He talked about "overpriced" Euros after I mentioned Lambos, so price was not a factor in this comparison. Point is, hp numbers aren't everything.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:42 PM   #59
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Did you read any of the preceding conversation? Better chassis/drivetrain development trumping hp was the point of my argument, thank you for agreeing. He talked about "overpriced" Euros after I mentioned Lambos, so price was not a factor in this comparison. Point is, hp numbers aren't everything.
Drivetrain is the only factor here.... because without the AWD, this car is not impressive. It's the same thing with the GT-R. They're impressive to watch launch...but after that...it's nothing impressive..
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:35 PM   #60
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Why the heel are they making engines with more than 300hp if all you want to do is turn? Just make them lighter and you can turn all you want. My entire point was that the Corvette should come with 800+ hp. At the least as an option. GM is restricted to DOT regulations thus the tires they sell the car with however, the end user can put on whatever he chooses. The AWD comparison is just silly.
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Old 04-14-2018, 06:37 AM   #61
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We are not all panty waisted. Some people actually use all the power they can muster. Sounds more to me you are the cars and coffee type. Nothing at all wrong with an 800hp Corvette. Zr1 is already 755 and I'd bet it holds it's own wherever it is. Of course the Nannies might be a hindrance/obstacle. Just the nature of the car hobbyist.
One small example would be my 52 year old Chevelle. You'd be stunned at how original the car appears down to the lowly 12 bolt differential. It does quite well at making 900 hp stick at launch. It's certainly not a road course type of car but not everyone who buys a Vette drives in circles either. This is 2018 and like it or not the engines are laying down very impressive power ratings. It's up to the end used to utilize the power. The overpriced Euro car's are sucking hind tit.


https://youtu.be/efA-4UC59Wg
https://youtu.be/6J8kqmn3lcY

The 570s beats the demon from ANY rolling start. Has also beaten a heads/cam/headers C6 Z06, Huracan 610-4, 1000hp big turbo trans am, and a C5 with bolt-ons and Nitrous(150 Shot?).

Definitely overpriced and UNDERPOWERED Euro Trash.

HOWEVER, an 800hp Corvette wouldn’t be fighting for traction or just putting up numbers to put up numbers. The reason why the 570s and 720s pull away from these cars is that they start in low boost for traction and increase the boost at each upshift. Notice how at each shift, the McLarens pull away even harder. After 150mph, the car keeps accelerating at the same pace. It doesn’t drop off until you run out of gears. It’s genius.

And on the topic of not handling 650hp(Z06) I received my May issue of Road and Track yesterday and they drove the ZR1 around NCM Motorsports Park. Here’s what Jack Baruth had to say: “If you like driving a Miata on a road course, you will like this. It’s that good.”

Last edited by Quinten_33; 04-14-2018 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Forgot to quote
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:22 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Quinten_33 View Post
https://youtu.be/efA-4UC59Wg
https://youtu.be/6J8kqmn3lcY

The 570s beats the demon from ANY rolling start. Has also beaten a heads/cam/headers C6 Z06, Huracan 610-4, 1000hp big turbo trans am, and a C5 with bolt-ons and Nitrous(150 Shot?).

Definitely overpriced and UNDERPOWERED Euro Trash.

HOWEVER, an 800hp Corvette wouldn’t be fighting for traction or just putting up numbers to put up numbers. The reason why the 570s and 720s pull away from these cars is that they start in low boost for traction and increase the boost at each upshift. Notice how at each shift, the McLarens pull away even harder. After 150mph, the car keeps accelerating at the same pace. It doesn’t drop off until you run out of gears. It’s genius.

And on the topic of not handling 650hp(Z06) I received my May issue of Road and Track yesterday and they drove the ZR1 around NCM Motorsports Park. Here’s what Jack Baruth had to say: “If you like driving a Miata on a road course, you will like this. It’s that good.”
Blah Blah Blah. If a Cow had Balls She'd be a Bull. Magazine writers write whatever they are paid the most to write. After the first half second the Top Fuel Dragster pulls away from everything. Blah Blah.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:50 PM   #63
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After the first half second? more like after the first .00000001 second it pulls away from everything.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:25 AM   #64
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Why the heel are they making engines with more than 300hp if all you want to do is turn? Just make them lighter and you can turn all you want. My entire point was that the Corvette should come with 800+ hp. At the least as an option. GM is restricted to DOT regulations thus the tires they sell the car with however, the end user can put on whatever he chooses. The AWD comparison is just silly.
There is a much more complicated answer to the question of why not just stop at 300BHP and take away weight. Things that sell are things like bigger numbers and more space, after all in the US the city car is out sold by the sub compact which is out sold by the compact all the way to the mid sized sedan (seems to be the sweet spot). The same thing is true with CUVs where all the way up to the mid sized region sales go up, so in a market where people buy size and bigger numbers (higher HP ratings) are more desirable then lower ones its hard to sell a lot of Miata's and GT86 let alone something like a Lotus Elise which weigh as little as 1,900 pounds.

Dodge probably sells more 4,500 pound 707BHP Hellcats then Lotus sells 2,000 pound Elise. This is why BMW naming scheme puts the cheaper cars at lower numbers and the more expensive cars at higher numbers. In other words the BMW 2 series cost less then the BMW 7 series and why the BMW 320 cost less then the BMW 340.

With that added space for more of your stuff comes more weight, and going from 300BHP and 800BHP suddenly your entire driveline has to get beefed up along with bigger/wider wheels and tires and brakes to slow everything down. That is how you go from a 2,200 pound 150BHP Miata to a 3,500 pound 460BHP Corvette and so on.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:16 PM   #65
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Drivetrain is the only factor here.... because without the AWD, this car is not impressive. It's the same thing with the GT-R. They're impressive to watch launch...but after that...it's nothing impressive..
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Originally Posted by DevilsReject97 View Post
LMAO...you're going to compare an AWD car (Which is why it won) vs. a RWD car that costs an easy 70k cheaper...

Not to mention the fact that the Huracan is mid-engine with virtually all of its weight centered around the mid/rear of the car... It's a no-brainer it will win... we didnt even need the video..
You said yourself that chassis is a factor here. Mid engine and weight distribution is also a factor of the chassis and not just the drivetrain itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 396ssrat View Post
Why the heel are they making engines with more than 300hp if all you want to do is turn? Just make them lighter and you can turn all you want. My entire point was that the Corvette should come with 800+ hp. At the least as an option. GM is restricted to DOT regulations thus the tires they sell the car with however, the end user can put on whatever he chooses. The AWD comparison is just silly.
The AWD video was added to illustrate my point that better chassis/drivetrain setups trump hp and that more hp won't make the car better for your goal: straight line racing. Nor for my goal: road course use. Also, you need more than 300 hp to make impressive lap times on a road course as well (since the Vette will never be as light as a Lotus Elise), the issue is that you run into diminishing returns as you increase in number because the chassis can't handle it, nor can the RWD layout. Both our goals would be better served if the C8, mid engine Vette comes with AWD vs just 800hp it can't put down. Before anyone says the Vette has always been RWD, I will throw it out there that the Vette has also always been front engine. If one can change, so can the other. Can it be an option, sure. Make a drag pack like the Demon, but I suspect GM would choose a Camaro for its Demon competitor and not a Vette.
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:04 AM   #66
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As it stands today the inexpensive Corvette is a world class car. It simply needs a chassis set up for all venues. And 800 hp
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:04 AM   #67
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You said yourself that chassis is a factor here. Mid engine and weight distribution is also a factor of the chassis and not just the drivetrain itself.



The AWD video was added to illustrate my point that better chassis/drivetrain setups trump hp and that more hp won't make the car better for your goal: straight line racing. Nor for my goal: road course use. Also, you need more than 300 hp to make impressive lap times on a road course as well (since the Vette will never be as light as a Lotus Elise), the issue is that you run into diminishing returns as you increase in number because the chassis can't handle it, nor can the RWD layout. Both our goals would be better served if the C8, mid engine Vette comes with AWD vs just 800hp it can't put down. Before anyone says the Vette has always been RWD, I will throw it out there that the Vette has also always been front engine. If one can change, so can the other. Can it be an option, sure. Make a drag pack like the Demon, but I suspect GM would choose a Camaro for its Demon competitor and not a Vette.
On a roll race AWD is a liability and not an asset, the DCT transmission along with gearing is why the ZR1 Corvette lost in that race. The car that holds the ring lap time record is a RWD and rear engine car and not some mid engine AWD car. It is marketing that has sold us on mid engine AWD DCT cars being the way of the future when in reality this isn't what is happening in the world. When I look at the top 10 lap times at VIR on fastlaptimes only two of them are AWD cars with 8 of them being RWD. 5 of them are front or front mid ship with 4 of them being mid engine and 1 being rear engine.

Cherry picked data is great for trying to win arguments but when you look at all of the information out there you start to see a different picture painted. When one of the youtubers who owns a 2019 ZR1 manual car is able to pull a 10.9 stock and on stock tires with time to improve it should make one think.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:10 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Quinten_33 View Post
https://youtu.be/efA-4UC59Wg
https://youtu.be/6J8kqmn3lcY

The 570s beats the demon from ANY rolling start. Has also beaten a heads/cam/headers C6 Z06, Huracan 610-4, 1000hp big turbo trans am, and a C5 with bolt-ons and Nitrous(150 Shot?).

Definitely overpriced and UNDERPOWERED Euro Trash.

HOWEVER, an 800hp Corvette wouldn’t be fighting for traction or just putting up numbers to put up numbers. The reason why the 570s and 720s pull away from these cars is that they start in low boost for traction and increase the boost at each upshift. Notice how at each shift, the McLarens pull away even harder. After 150mph, the car keeps accelerating at the same pace. It doesn’t drop off until you run out of gears. It’s genius.

And on the topic of not handling 650hp(Z06) I received my May issue of Road and Track yesterday and they drove the ZR1 around NCM Motorsports Park. Here’s what Jack Baruth had to say: “If you like driving a Miata on a road course, you will like this. It’s that good.”

the reason the 570s beats the demon is because it's mid engined. boost by gear is as old as the ecu


You accelerate based on traction, and how much traction you get is dependent on how much of the percentage of the weight of the vehicle you can get on the driven wheels. When you accelerate your forcing weight transfer to the rear. The only time when you have 100% traction is either awd, or a rwd car doing a wheelie. The harder your accelerate in a rwd car, the more weight you transfer. It's a compound effect.



This is exactly why hellcats and demons 1/4 mile times are all over the place. If you don't hook very well, you don't transfer weight well. This is a problem with nearly all front engined rwd cars. The only real solution is slicks.


Mid engined and rear engined rwd vehicles already have a huge advantage over front engine, since they are starting with significantly more rear weight bias. This is why the 570s will beat a demon in nearly every scenario, especially on the street.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:15 AM   #69
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Drivetrain is the only factor here.... because without the AWD, this car is not impressive. It's the same thing with the GT-R. They're impressive to watch launch...but after that...it's nothing impressive..

ah is that why the 2wd huracan is just as fast




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Old 07-03-2018, 11:04 AM   #70
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500 horsepower is underpowered for an alleged 70k mid engine car? Get out of here, dude.
500 as in base model? I think it will be higher than that but I think that is a pretty fine standard.
they aren't using the engine listed as that is only being used for the Caddys.

2021 vettes will have 800hp and hopefully an awd version in the near future.
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