[SosaAndretti]

You can get 600 with SS3, hi ram, and ported/milled heads.

I’m running the SS3 on my A10, ported MSD, and ported heads. No milling and stock compression and hit 575 wheel, so a hi ram and compression you’ll be over 600 easy

[asthmamax11]

Originally Posted by KyptonGreen1LE

3.73

Please don't ever do that again

Us 6 speed guys are resentful that changing gears is impossible

[sr71bb]

OK my application is one of a DAILY DRIVER and TRACK car. AMP used a GWATNEY PERFORMANCE LT NFC cam. The graph below is THAT cam on my car comparing a side by side comparison of the LT NFC with an LT2 LT5TB and a MSD NW103TB. A side note here that this LME 416 has forged pistons with valve reliefs already in them so I could easily run the TRACK ATTACK or SS4 Cam but we felt those cams were a little BIG for the daily driver side ESPECIALLY since I did NOT want to use a higher stall speed convertor.

Obviously the engine wanted MORE air because it is a LME 416 with VERY good heads on it. This is fully evident by the fact that car made 25 more HP than the LT2 combo was producing. GWATNEY"s own testing showed that the MSD manifold DOES NOT pick up any additional power on a stock cubic inch engine compared to an LT2 LT5 combo. The LT2 combo picks p a very solid 15-20HP over a stock LT1 manifold though.

My RPM range when tracking is the 4500 RPM range and UP. I run an A10 so the car in track mode is pretty much always in that range and above. I AM running 14:1 compression and E85.

The car with this COMBO gets around 14 MPG on the highway pulling an 800 pound loaded tire trailer at around 80-85 MPH. When driving on the street the car gets 12-13MPG typically. Those numbers are indicative of a VERY efficient engine based on the power it produces along with the fact it is on E85 which burns at a 30% faster rate than 93.

The ONE thing we ARE going to change is that AMP will be tuning the A10 tranny because the car DOES have some minor surging issues when at idle. It is not bad at all but the tranny needs to lock up at a slightly HIGHER RPM level than what the stock convertor is allowing. I DID NOT want to use a higher stall speed convertor because those inherently have SOME amount of slippage in them and that is NOT really ideal for a road racing application.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by sr71bb

OK my application is one of a DAILY DRIVER and TRACK car. AMP used a GWATNEY PERFORMANCE LT NFC cam. The graph below is THAT cam on my car comparing a side by side comparison of the LT NFC with an LT2 LT5TB and a MSD NW103TB. A side note here that this LME 416 has forged pistons with valve reliefs...

GWATNEY"s own testing showed that the MSD manifold DOES NOT pick up any additional power on a stock cubic inch engine compared to an LT2 LT5 combo.

I AM running 14:1 compression and E85.

what cylinder heads are on the car? trying to put this in a format that's easier to digest. what does the car have for air induction?

14:1 LME 416
??? cylinder heads
GPI NFC camshaft
msd intake manifold (stock?)
nick williams 103 mm tb (stock?)

581 518

same parts
LT2 manifold (stock?)
LT5 tb (stock?)

554 527

good info, albeit the 14:1 big motor really makes this cam look like a dud.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by s346k

what cylinder heads are on the car? trying to put this in a format that's easier to digest. what does the car have for air induction?

14:1 LME 416
??? cylinder heads
GPI NFC camshaft
msd intake manifold (stock?)
nick williams 103 mm tb (stock?)

581 518

same parts
LT2 manifold (stock?)
LT5 tb (stock?)

554 527

good info, albeit the 14:1 big motor really makes this cam look like a dud.

Not not really. It certainly is not as lumpy an idle as it would have been on a stock cubic inch engine but you can definitely tell something is going on when she fires up LOL

The ROTOFAB BIG GULP is the same on both. The LT2 manifold and LT5 combo were BOTH ported. The MSD and NW 103 is NOT ported. Porting in general picks up MAYBE 5-7 HP in regards to manifold and TB. The heads were the same using an AMP proprietary port. The DIFFERENCE in HP was solely due to the MSD and NW103 on a LME 416 engine that wanted more air than the LT2/LT5 combo could provide.

On a STOCK CI engine though I doubt you would see any HP increase over the LT2 set up.

[NYblack1le]

Originally Posted by s346k

what cylinder heads are on the car? trying to put this in a format that's easier to digest. what does the car have for air induction?

14:1 LME 416
??? cylinder heads
GPI NFC camshaft
msd intake manifold (stock?)
nick williams 103 mm tb (stock?)

581 518

same parts
LT2 manifold (stock?)
LT5 tb (stock?)

554 527

good info, albeit the 14:1 big motor really makes this cam look like a dud.

A SS4 nfc is not the cam for a 416.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

A SS4 nfc is not the cam for a 416.

SS4 and the NFC cam are two different cams. I agree that the NFC cam is NOT the ideal cam for the 416 and the plans are to have one custom spec out for this particular combination. That being said the car runs VERY well with the NFC cam.

The ORIGINAL concept with the NFC cam is that you could MILL your heads .040 and use a .040 head gasket and you could get by WITHOUT fly cutting the tops of the STOCK LT1 pistons.

This was the CAM I was GOING to put in the PRIOR engine (an LT1 Stock CI) BEFORE I blew it up at the track (LOL). Since the pistons on the LME 416 motor have a slight DOME with valve reliefs, then my compression is 14:1.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

A SS4 nfc is not the cam for a 416.

yes but id expect it to make more power in a 14:1 416. i've been eyeing that camshaft for several months. never saw any private data on it. gpi gave me the basic response when i emailed them, leaving almost all of my questions unanswered. i'm not a fan of the lsa or exhaust duration but i think it would drive well in a full weight stick car, in trade for some low end tq.

i imagine it drives excellent in that 416 and with an a10 would always be in power on track.

i'm thinking something like a btr 220 & cid heads for my car. maybe a 225 depending on how much compression i can get out of it without flycutting.

more info the better.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by s346k

yes but id expect it to make more power in a 14:1 416. i've been eyeing that camshaft for several months. never saw any private data on it. gpi gave me the basic response when i emailed them, leaving almost all of my questions unanswered. i'm not a fan of the lsa or exhaust duration but i think it would drive well in a full weight stick car, in trade for some low end tq.

i imagine it drives excellent in that 416 and with an a10 would always be in power on track.

i'm thinking something like a btr 220 & cid heads for my car. maybe a 225 depending on how much compression i can get out of it without flycutting.

more info the better.

Well here is a video file of my car at IDLE. I am NOT BUTCH PALMER but since I am NOT on FACEBOOK I asked him to post this up so I could share it with you guys. GWATNEY
Feedback to AMP was that the 416 needed the MSD and 103TB and they were right about that one. The SS4 cam would make more power but would lose some drivability and the same with the TRACK ATTACK cam. The car SHIFTS AWESOME right now with the STOCK convertor so I DID NOT want to introduce a higher stall speed convertor.

I guess I could cut a hole in the hood and run a HIGH RAM manifold like most vendors do to show more HP but that's not for me LOL. I am not racing this car on the internet; I am actually running it on the track and on the street.

The plan now is to play around some with some tranny tuning and to get a CAM custom ground for this combo. I know people throw around 600 RWHP like thats easy to attain BUT I HAVE NOT seen that in person myself and I am pretty happy with the power level it is at right now.

https://www.facebook.com/10000668314...6837362414212/

[NYblack1le]

Originally Posted by s346k

yes but id expect it to make more power in a 14:1 416. i've been eyeing that camshaft for several months. never saw any private data on it. gpi gave me the basic response when i emailed them, leaving almost all of my questions unanswered. i'm not a fan of the lsa or exhaust duration but i think it would drive well in a full weight stick car, in trade for some low end tq.

i imagine it drives excellent in that 416 and with an a10 would always be in power on track.

i'm thinking something like a btr 220 & cid heads for my car. maybe a 225 depending on how much compression i can get out of it without flycutting.

more info the better.

Best bet is to call them. Speak to James. They get emails from “tire kickers” all day everyday. If you let them know that you’re serious you will get some of the best customer service in the business.

[17camaroSS]

Originally Posted by s346k

yes but id expect it to make more power in a 14:1 416. i've been eyeing that camshaft for several months. never saw any private data on it. gpi gave me the basic response when i emailed them, leaving almost all of my questions unanswered. i'm not a fan of the lsa or exhaust duration but i think it would drive well in a full weight stick car, in trade for some low end tq.

i imagine it drives excellent in that 416 and with an a10 would always be in power on track.

i'm thinking something like a btr 220 & cid heads for my car. maybe a 225 depending on how much compression i can get out of it without flycutting.

more info the better.

Could always get ahold of Martin Smallwood as well for your cam.

[17camaroSS]

Originally Posted by sr71bb

GWATNEY"s own testing showed that the MSD manifold DOES NOT pick up any additional power on a stock cubic inch engine compared to an LT2 LT5 combo. The LT2 combo picks p a very solid 15-20HP over a stock LT1 manifold though.

Got a link to that? Because my bolt on car gained 24rw with a hi ram on a heartbreaker dyno. MSD will most definitely gain on a bolt on/stock cube setup.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by 17camaroSS

MSD will most definitely gain on a bolt on/stock cube setup.

i think it would be very close, LT2 vs msd, with stock cam and heads anyway. i do think the msd is a wolf in sheeps clothing, as far as long runner manifolds go. it is best served on a cammed engine, moreso with a good set of heads. btr has done a lot of testing with it and it never disappoints.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by 17camaroSS

Got a link to that? Because my bolt on car gained 24rw with a hi ram on a heartbreaker dyno. MSD will most definitely gain on a bolt on/stock cube setup.

\
First off you are comparing apples to oranges. An MSD is NOT a high ram manifold like what you put on your car. The runners are short as are the runners in an LT2 manifold.

Secondly you are challenging a statement based on what you THINK and I am telling you what myself and others KNOW to be true thru our own experience.

This is just ANOTHER example of internet bench racing where you make a statement that has NO BASIS in FACT. It quite frankly is VERY aggravating to me and others that spend ALOT of time money and effort to share information in order to help others with FACTUAL information and not CONJECTURE.

People wonder why vendors DONT share more information with us and it is because alot of times it is a waste of THEIR time .

Here is the video that GWATNEY PERFORMANCE did on stock vs LT2 vs MSD.