[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

But, at the end of the day, and in years to come, the GT500 and GT350 will be more collectible. Sad, but true.

But most of these cars are not bought or kept for that purpose or thought. The many years down the road where that would make a difference , other owners and other generations would benefit. Living for today, how many care about the cars future .

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

But, at the end of the day, and in years to come, the GT500 and GT350 will be more collectible. Sad, but true.

Collectible requires not putting miles on it...when I want a car to just look at, I buy a 1:18 diecast of it.

Plus collectible because of low production volume means nothing to me...collectible because of how it performs is what I pay attention to. No one knows about the future of collector cars, but I would guess, none of us here are building stables with low-mile collector status vehicles.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Collectible requires not putting miles on it...when I want a car to just look at, I buy a 1:18 diecast of it.

Plus collectible because of low production volume means nothing to me...collectible because of how it performs is what I pay attention to. No one knows about the future of collector cars, but I would guess, none of us here are building stables with low-mile collector status vehicles.

Collectibility draws from several different factors. Performance has to be there, but being the BEST performer does not guarantee collectibility. Was the Corvette Stingray the best performer in 1963? Was the Shelby GT500 the best performer in 1968? Personally I don’t know, because I don’t know what the best performing car in either of those years was, but I do know that if I could have any car from 1963 it would be a Split Window Coupe and if I could have any car from 1968 it would be a GT500 convertible. Appearance and emotional triggers also play into the collectibility of a car over time.

Today I would say that the ZL1 / ZLE is the better performing car. The GT350 is a solid performer, though not as good a performer as ZL1, but it does have a stronger emotional presence, whatever that means, and for that reason will likely be the more “collectible” car 15 - 20 years from now when people can’t accurately remember 0-60 or quarter mile times or who was faster around which track. But the appearance and the emotional draw is there every time you look at the car.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Collectibility draws from several different factors. Performance has to be there, but being the BEST performer does not guarantee collectibility. Was the Corvette Stingray the best performer in 1963? Was the Shelby GT500 the best performer in 1968? Personally I don’t know, because I don’t know what the best performing car in either of those years was, but I do know that if I could have any car from 1963 it would be a Split Window Coupe and if I could have any car from 1968 it would be a GT500 convertible. Appearance and emotional triggers also play into the collectibility of a car over time.

Today I would say that the ZL1 / ZLE is the better performing car. The GT350 is a solid performer, though not as good a performer as ZL1, but it does have a stronger emotional presence, whatever that means, and for that reason will likely be the more “collectible” car 15 - 20 years from now when people can’t accurately remember 0-60 or quarter mile times or who was faster around which track. But the appearance and the emotional draw is there every time you look at the car.

No argument from me - I stated what matters to me as far as collectability, not what current collectors are using as their gauge.

For instance - the Multimatic GT is considered an instant collectors car. A car that offers little in terms of performance by comparison to literally any other car in it's class...but at low production volumes, and based on previous GT speculation - it gains instant status. If I were in the position to own one, I would pass and buy 2 05-06 GTs before the current one. But there is my personal preference coming out again, not what the actual collector market trend is showing.

Anyway, as stated, I don't know of any collectors here...so the point really doesn't hold any value in this company.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

But, at the end of the day, and in years to come, the GT500 and GT350 will be more collectible. Sad, but true.

That's exactly what my friend thought about his 2010 GT500 that he bought in 2009. He put that thing in his garage under a cover and only fired it up to maintiain it. Then Ford put out a 662HP version of the GT500. His value dropped like a rock. He sold it not long ago for about $30k, after trying to sell it for a year. It was in perfect mint condition. But who cares about a 2010 GT500 when a better one came out not long after.

Now granted, he didn't wait 30 or 40 years, only 10, but still. You never know what's going to be collectable down the road for many reasons.

Personnaly, I think the C7 ZR1 with a manual trans may be collectable down the road because it is the last front engine manual vette with the most HP. But, am I willing to bet $120k that 30 years from now I can make a million dollars on it? HECK NO!

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

That's exactly what my friend thought about his 2010 GT500 that he bought in 2009. He put that thing in his garage under a cover and only fired it up to maintiain it. Then Ford put out a 662HP version of the GT500. His value dropped like a rock. He sold it not long ago for about $30k, after trying to sell it for a year. It was in perfect mint condition. But who cares about a 2010 GT500 when a better one came out not long after.

Now granted, he didn't wait 30 or 40 years, only 10, but still. You never know what's going to be collectable down the road for many reasons.

Personnaly, I think the C7 ZR1 with a manual trans may be collectable down the road because it is the last front engine manual vette with the most HP. But, am I willing to bet $120k that 30 years from now I can make a million dollars on it? HECK NO!

This exactly. If I was putting money on future collector cars - 1 year only ZR1 with a manual and ZTK is high on the list. In fact, now the the ZLE is offered in Auto as well, I put the ZLE manuals in collector territory. Historically, manual transmission versions of the high-HP variants of cars always bring the most value. The new GT500 doesn't have a manual yet, will be a multi-year production car, and fades into the scenery with a DCT now being offered on everything. Actually makes the argument that it isn't a collectible car at all.

Also - V Wagon manual is a collector car...and I'm waiting for my spec to come up for sale...but I'm still going to drive it!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

This exactly. If I was putting money on future collector cars - 1 year only ZR1 with a manual and ZTK is high on the list. In fact, now the the ZLE is offered in Auto as well, I put the ZLE manuals in collector territory. Historically, manual transmission versions of the high-HP variants of cars always bring the most value. The new GT500 doesn't have a manual yet, will be a multi-year production car, and fades into the scenery with a DCT now being offered on everything. Actually makes the argument that it isn't a collectible car at all.

Also - V Wagon manual is a collector car...and I'm waiting for my spec to come up for sale...but I'm still going to drive it!

Yes. 2109 ZR1 6MT is an instant collectible. ZLE 6MT the same. V-Wagon? Oh god yes. And I don’t even like wagons. I still think the GT500 DCT or not will be collectible. Might (will) take longer, but the stylish aggressiveness of the car will put it over the top.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well then why aren't you in one? Personally I'd take a GT over a GT350 and a GT500. And I'd take a SS over a GT. And I'd take a ZL1 over a SS.

As already established it takes a significant amount more engineering and cost to build a car that can go 200 MPH as opposed to 180 MPH. Regardless, this entire hobby is for bragging rights. The slaughter that the GT350R suffered left a lot of Ford folks hurting. So this was Ford's chance to redeem themself after all these years. And what do they get? A 4200 pound $94K car that can't go faster than 180 MPH.

Honestly I have a house by the water in a vacation resort area, a boat slip with marina, boat, private beach, 3 kids 1 who is in college, and a beautiful toy already in the garage. I'm not sure I can or want to swing another expensive toy at the moment. Maybe someday though if the right deal came along.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

That's exactly what my friend thought about his 2010 GT500 that he bought in 2009. He put that thing in his garage under a cover and only fired it up to maintiain it. Then Ford put out a 662HP version of the GT500. His value dropped like a rock. He sold it not long ago for about $30k, after trying to sell it for a year. It was in perfect mint condition. But who cares about a 2010 GT500 when a better one came out not long after.

Now granted, he didn't wait 30 or 40 years, only 10, but still. You never know what's going to be collectable down the road for many reasons.

Personnaly, I think the C7 ZR1 with a manual trans may be collectable down the road because it is the last front engine manual vette with the most HP. But, am I willing to bet $120k that 30 years from now I can make a million dollars on it? HECK NO!

That can be true but there are cars out there that have done very nicely even when faster models came out. A few that come to mind 87 Grand National, 89 Buick Powered Trans-Am, 93 Cobra Mustang, 2003 Cobra Mustang. Hell the 93 Cobra and GN have less hp than my wife's minivan but are highly desired vehicles. Both of which I would love to own

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes I am here. And yes for $75,495.00 you can get a GT500 w/handling package (how I would spec the car) or for the $59,000.00 you could get the ZL1 (as posted above). I'll take the 500 all day long thank you, but I would also take the 2019 GT350 over the ZL1.

I took all my options in my car, and put them in the ford price configurator.
87K, I couldn't add a HUD or PDR...

[BlaqWhole]

None of these cars are collectibles. None of them actually increase in value. At least not enough to make them turn a profit. To think that they are or will be is foolish. The only car that I could say that truly increased in value is the early 2000 Ford GT. That thing doubled and tripled it's value within a few years. If you bought one for $157K in 2005 and then sold it in 2009 for $300K then most likely you made a huge chunk of change. If you bought a Demon for $100K and then sold it a year or two later for $140K then yea you likely made a little money. But that isn't the case with any of the cars we're talking about now. People think they are buying something that is turning them a profit when that is hardly the case. If anything they are losing money and don't even realize it. Because they are focused on one aspect which is what they bought the car for and what they sold it for. Not considering the costs of ownership, costs of maintenance, decreasing value of money, and other factors. So a car could increase in value by $20K and end of the day you could sell it and end up having lost money over the entire time you owned that car. I got into this debate with a "friend" of mine about buying houses. The only way a car can be profitable is if it increases in value to the extent that you make enough money off selling it to cover all the costs of owning it in a short enough period of time that the money itself doesn't lose value. A $74K 2020 GT500 with a $5K markup that you sell for $100K 30 years from now would not be profitable. That is, unless you made money off the car during the time you owned it.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Honestly I have a house by the water in a vacation resort area, a boat slip with marina, boat, private beach, 3 kids 1 who is in college, and a beautiful toy already in the garage. I'm not sure I can or want to swing another expensive toy at the moment. Maybe someday though if the right deal came along.

It's kinda weird that you have all that yet you spend all this time on here arguing about a $74K car that is as desirable as you claim it to be and will be a collectible and that you apparently could easily own but don't have but get soo angry with us that you start dissing another car that is a lowly $64K. LOL!! If I had all those things you claim to have do you think for a second I'd be arguing with a bunch of Camaro owners about a Mustang? LOL!! Judging by your comments and how angry and disrespectful you act, why do you even care what the Hell we think to the point that it bothers you that much?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 did not get an "official" 200 MPH status because it did not average 200 MPH or more for those 2 runs. It would have had to run in one direction and then the opposite direction and the average of those 2 runs is the official top speed. So their "official" top speed is 198 MPH. However it DID actually do 202 MPH. Of note is that the Hellcat "officially" did 202 MPH.

From what I remember reading is that the 13-14 GT500 never hit 200 MPH at all in any direction during any testing. However it is claimed that the 13-14 GT500 has hit 200 MPH at some point on some track. But I believe the "official" top speed was like 192 or 194 MPH or something. I could be wrong as I read all this quite a while ago.

But what I noted is that Ford was pushing for that 200 MPH status with the 13-14 GT500 even tho they never got it "officially". The car was just not capable of doing it. But I do not remember them ever restricting it to a lower speed when it was perfectly capable of doing 190+like they are limiting the 20 GT500. Shaffe, you mentioned that it could be that it took a long time for them to reach X MPH that they lowered it. However if you ever look at top speed runs you'll notice that it always takes quite some time to get more speed once a car gets closer to it's top speed. So I cannot see that as being a legit answer as to why they limited it. Plus if that was so then Ford would have flat out said it. From what I read Ford claimed they did simulations and that in those sims the 20 GT500 was able to do 200 or whatever. But regardless of how life-like those sims are they still cannot 100% accurately relate to real world driving conditions. So here are a couple quotes that stood out for me.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...500-top-speed/
"The cost associated with engineering a 200-mph car versus a 180-mph car is not insignificant, and it likely allowed for the wiggle room to include such performance-enhancing features as a dual-clutch automatic transmission and a rear wing borrowed from the Mustang GT4 racer."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...speed-limited/
"Why? Well, it costs a lot to engineer a car to do 200 mph, and Ford thought it'd be wiser to engineer a new dual-clutch transmission and develop a high-downforce aero package for the car."


Based on those comments it isn't due to gearing but more so because the car isn't developed well enough for those speeds. Here is another comment that grabbed my attention...

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/14/...500-top-speed/
"That number will also likely leave a healthy buffer between the electronically limited handling and handling at the true limit."

Basically saying the car is not safe at those speeds. At least that is my interpretation. For the record the ZLE has a top speed of 190 MPH and that is with the extreme handling it has and a 3.73 FDR.

That is your interpretation and you may be right. I am sure we will find out once someone unlocks the ECU. Until then we can only guess

However. Reread the actual articles and not just the headlines. Those are NOT words direct from Ford, those are words from the authors of the articles.

"If you're a little let down that Joe Walsh's (at least) 39-year-old Maserati will outrun the brand-new Shelby, don't be. The cost associated with engineering a 200-mph car versus a 180-mph car is not insignificant, and it likely allowed for the wiggle room to include such performance-enhancing features as a dual-clutch automatic transmission and a rear wing borrowed from the Mustang GT4 racer"

"Likely allowed" That is Car & Driver straight up guessing like we are.

The Road & Track Article is simply paraphrasing what Car & Driver said, "Our colleagues at Car and Driver report that Ford has decided to limit the new GT500 to 180 mph"

We glossed over a hidden detail in Ford's press release on the 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 aerodynamics. Ford has capped the super coupe's top speed at 180 mph, feeling that number represents the "sweet spot" of straight-line speed and cornering performance.

It's not like they had a sit down with anyone from Ford Performance or Ford who said it's too expensive to engineer a 200MPH vehicle so we spent that money on the DCT and aero package. They straight up guessed. Noe if they had a conversation with someone form Ford and that is what was inferred/said/mentioned hinted at. OK I would be 100% on board with you and say yeah the car must not be stable or safe or past 180 something isnt right... But those articles are from journalists making guesses after reading a press release

AS far as my guess on why, hell I just guessed lol. This place is dead just making conversation lol.



When GM did teh test on the ZL1 top speed yes they were on a oval so that helped, but did they do that with the auto or M6? I saw Hennesy did a top speed run in a 17 ZL1 M6 and only hit 173

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

When GM did teh test on the ZL1 top speed yes they were on a oval so that helped, but did they do that with the auto or M6? I saw Hennesy did a top speed run in a 17 ZL1 M6 and only hit 173

A10 according to the article I posted.

[rocket403]

Not sure about future collectible status but my RT is one of close to 200 in Canada, the Furious Fuchsia RT and SRT cars are the lowest number for colour that Dodge has put out, I go to the largest Mopar show in Canada and out of all the new Challengers (over 100) there was 2 of the FF R/T's one black and one white stripe. I keep it and have not traded up because it is not a common colour, and even though power wise it has been outclassed much more in the last 5 years it is still in my mind not something I'm ready to sell.