[EFI Tuning]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

You get banned from the Mustang site for having a different opinion. They can't handle the truth

Must be run by liberals (you know... the party all about diversity until you don't agree with them).

I've refrained for months... had to

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

You get banned from the Mustang site for having a different opinion. They can't handle the truth

They do seem to be a little bit more ban happy there...although I have had ban threats here too. People tend to complain when others have views that don't align with theirs.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Also, correct me if I’m wrong…but the SS 1LE has never been tested against a GT350 or a GT350R. Some of you seem to think that simply because some of these times posted are close that they are equal in performance. Different track and weather conditions can easily add or shed 3 seconds to a lap time.

The funny thing is here, more people prefer the mustang and it’s inferior performance over the camaro….and nearly always have. You seem to think that performance is everything, and for most people that simply isn’t true.

You do also realize that the GT350R just was within spitting distance to a chassis you all claim is light years superior to the S550….and did so despite an absolutely enormous disparity in horsepower and torque.

I don't think anyone should think the SS 1LE will run on the R. They can say the 1LE is likely faster than a GT350. The metrics show it, the closeness to R's time for the BDC also show it. Or are you saying there is less than 3 seconds difference between the R and GT350 at LS? That would be a tremendous fail for the amount of money needed for the R. Honestly just looking at metrics, the GT350 Track would probably struggle to hold off a base SS. But it is clear Ford has no interest is showing the world just how the GT350 is compared to the SS or SS 1LE on the track. You can insert your own reasons there, but bottom line we will never see that comparison on a track.

I don't know anyone here who prefers the Mustang. You and maybe one or two other posters in this thread don't drive a Camaro. Don't know what point you are trying to make there. Though I agree performance is not everything to most people. I mean the Corolla is still the best selling car. What more can you say? I am definitely not one of those people...performance was the primary reason I bought this car. I wanted the most for my budget with a warranty.

There you go again milking the whole "short X HP" train like it means a damn on a technical track. Let me spin it more from the other side, a $70K+ car got beat by a $60K one. Now you see how moronic that is? Are both true...yes. Does it really make a difference...no. Or did you forget how close that $40K SS 1LE is to the "special" GT350R at almost twice it's cost. Does that suddenly make the R less special? Probably to some, but not really. How does the fact a reworked and stripped down S550 purposely built for the track with a unicorn powering it, getting beat by a LT1 with a blower with the same convenience features of a loaded luxury car, which costs less make you feel? Probably about the same as those ZL1 owners with their "special" chassis not trouncing the R on the track. In the end, being upset about either is childish and shows a lack of understanding of what makes a track car.

Now continue on shooting down other fanboys. I don't like them either.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

I don't think anyone should think the SS 1LE will run on the R. They can say the 1LE is likely faster than a GT350. The metrics show it, the closeness to R's time for the BDC also show it. Or are you saying there is less than 3 seconds difference between the R and GT350 at LS? That would be a tremendous fail for the amount of money needed for the R. Honestly just looking at metrics, the GT350 Track would probably struggle to hold off a base SS. But it is clear Ford has no interest is showing the world just how the GT350 is compared to the SS or SS 1LE on the track. You can insert your own reasons there, but bottom line we will never see that comparison on a track.

I don't know anyone here who prefers the Mustang. You and maybe one or two other posters in this thread don't drive a Camaro. Don't know what point you are trying to make there. Though I agree performance is not everything to most people. I mean the Corolla is still the best selling car. What more can you say? I am definitely not one of those people...performance was the primary reason I bought this car. I wanted the most for my budget with a warranty.

There you go again milking the whole "short X HP" train like it means a damn on a technical track. Let me spin it more from the other side, a $70K+ car got beat by a $60K one. Now you see how moronic that is? Are both true...yes. Does it really make a difference...no. Or did you forget how close that $40K SS 1LE is to the "special" GT350R at almost twice it's cost. Does that suddenly make the R less special? Probably to some, but not really. How does the fact a reworked and stripped down S550 purposely built for the track with a unicorn powering it, getting beat by a LT1 with a blower with the same convenience features of a loaded luxury car, which costs less make you feel? Probably about the same as those ZL1 owners with their "special" chassis not trouncing the R on the track. In the end, being upset about either is childish and shows a lack of understanding of what makes a track car.

I think the SS1LE and GT350 (non R) would likely be close. You will likely see a similar result to the ZL1…with the advantage going to the 350. The 350 has a slight advantage on the straights, and the SS 1LE has a slight advantage in the turns. I would love to see this and would not be disappointed if either won/lost. Until this happens, we can speculate all we want….we really don’t know. Hell, the new 2018’s may even be able to give the GT350 a run for their money for all I know…but I’d still rather have the 350.

I’m not really sure where you’re going with your second paragraph. I personally have no feelings (good or bad) about the results. I thought it was pretty cool the GT350R was as close as it was, and it was bad-ass watching the split screen of the two going around the track. I don’t own either, so I really don’t have any skin in the game here. I’m certainly not upset.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

You do also realize that the GT350R just was within spitting distance to a chassis you all claim is light years superior to the S550….and did so despite an absolutely enormous disparity in horsepower and torque.

And I'm sure you realize that a car designed specifically for maximum track performance can best even a more powerful car designed for acceptable performance on the track, street and strip.

[13vertss]

Times are now listed on Willow springs. They got the ss1le above the gt350r on time rank even tho they tied. But they left the faster time of the zl1 of 1:26.16.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

And I'm sure you realize that a car designed specifically for maximum track performance can best even a more powerful car designed for acceptable performance on the track, street and strip.

Still no mention of the difference in tires lol. The only reason any Camaro is better than a mustang is the tires. Now it's not even mentioned. But being a 4000 pound off balanced touring car is an advantage. The beauty of brand bias lol

[kwav8r]

I'll have to admit, this argument is really entertaining. No way this argument will end, at least in my lifetime, it's fun, gives us all something to talk &#$! about.

All three manufacturers approach "Muscle Cars" from different angles, each has their niche and each their diehards. If you're a marketing guy/gal for any of these you have job security. I know because I have actually watched dudes & ladies get in fist fights over who's car/truck is bigger/faster than the other.

The Niches - IMHO.

Dodge/MOPAR - Nothing beats cubes. We go fast in a straight line. Our cars are huge and guzzle gas and we don't give a &*#$. We like wrenching on cars, because that's what you do with a Dodge but, "I'm gonna beat your ass from light to light and grin doing it - Murica!".

Chevy - Still trying to find that elusive sweet spot between, handling, styling, power, reliability, etc. in a car that won't cost you an arm and leg. Sometimes they get it right, other times their muscle cars look like chick rides (no offense to the ladies on here either - there's just no excuse for the 4th Gen) and spend a lot of time broke because of cheap parts to keep costs down. "We're hear to compete between the two and will beat at least one of you, for a little while, at your game"

Ford - Trying hard to be "American Engineered" competition to the Europeans. High rev, flat plane crank, with a loud exhaust (hello Ferrari, etc.). Euro styling compared to Dodge/Chevy. Fancy themselves better than everyone else because "Hey, we're Ford and we can charge more for our #$&* because our crowd will pay for it."

For the record, I'm not throwing shade on anyone. These are just my observations. I've never owned any of the three but driven all of them (I will take home a ZL1 soon though). I did however, grow up in a machine shop and have done my share of head/block/whatever work on all three.

Last comment, all three manufacturers like incremental improvements to keep us coming back for more - it's the game (enjoy it!). The margins are getting a lot thinner though which just makes for better arguments. As for MT, they get PAID to keep the debate alive, they're actors in the muscle car drama show.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I am glad someone else noticed that. We now live in a world where the high end version of the pony cars are zipping around a road course hanging and even besting the likes of Italian supercars, 911's, etc. If you told folks this not long ago they would have laughed so hard they would rupture their spleen.

It really is a victory for both brands, no question.

But it is still a tough comparison though, and here is why:

When I watched a Head2Head with the ATS-V vs. the C63 AMG, the ATS-V beat the Mercedes in every metric and they even said the Cadillac could be the best driving sports luxury coupe ever built, but still lost. And I agreed with the reasoning wholeheartedly. Their reasoning was that if a buyer was so fixated on tenths of a second differences, they would probably be buying a sports car rather than a sports luxury coupe, and the interior of the Cadillac was crappy. It has to be a good luxury car first, then be a great driving one second. The Mercedes did that, but the Cadillac did not.

But it's a bit of apples and oranges here. The GT350R is a dedicated track version of Ford's pony car (like the Z/28), but the ZL1 is a GT touring car (like the GT500). So, do you judge them by how well they go on a track, or how well they act as a GT car? Depending on what criteria you pick, you will get a different winner.

I really have no issue with them picking the GT350R. Under certain criteria, I would pick it as well. But, under other criteria, I would pick the ZL1. If you have no brand loyalty and like the looks of both cars, there are a ton of great choices to be had.

This was kind of like comparing ice cream vs. beer. They are both awesome, just different. Which one would I pick? BOTH!!

I'll also agree with Mustang Fanboy here. The Shelby GT350 is more unique. It has a history (like the Z/28) and it has a unique engine with some other unique components (carbon fiber wheels). While the 1LE is basically an SS that was fixed up from the factory. That being said GT350s are hard to find. Local dealers want a big mark up. While there are several 1LE are local to me right now, and I have GM credit points. Lower price, same performance, and lets be honest GM makes a great V8.

[jonny5cam]

The Camaro is going to wipe the floor with that Ford. The Chevrolet is just superior.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Still no mention of the difference in tires lol. The only reason any Camaro is better than a mustang is the tires. Now it's not even mentioned. But being a 4000 pound off balanced touring car is an advantage. The beauty of brand bias lol

Yeah, all the sudden "barely street legal" tires aren't the difference maker.

I agree though. Tires are just one part of a complete package. It's just funny how they complain about the tires with the 1LE vs GT PP and think swapping them will completely change the results.

[unavailablezl1]

Im sure the Mustang FanBoys are saying that the 1LE that tied the R doesn't count because it is on a different day

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Im sure the Mustang FanBoys are saying that the 1LE that tied the R doesn't count because it is on a different day

And that different day will automatically favor the Camaro

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Im sure the Mustang FanBoys are saying that the 1LE that tied the R doesn't count because it is on a different day

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't. But it's not as bad as comparing Ring times. Bottom line if they were ran on the same day, the variables reduced. There are still variables even if same day/same driver, but what you are after are the fewest variables for a performance comparison.