Arguement on headers.

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Bo White

Even on boosted cars. My car dynoed 630/580 on Vengeance Racing's dyno back when they had a 5th gen dyno day in Jan and Im stock internal. The only cars that made more than me that day were not stock internal.

That must been some extensive porting on the heads and intake and one hell of a cam in your car for those numbers Bo.

[A.R. Headers]

Guys, I'd like to add a little perspective from a company that is certified 100% US made. It most certainly costs more to manufacture in the States. There's no getting around that nor do we have the desire to. We're proud of our staff and what they've done to help build our reputation. We're also quite content with the quality of the materials we use for manufacturing. In the exhaust industry, other than trying to increase your profit margin, we see no reason to use anything that isn't manufactured here. We've seen what happens and heard the horror stories. We chose a different path from the start and it works for us.
The other part of the story is how the parts, in this case header systems, are designed. It's easy to say they're all the same or make similar power but that simply isn't true. As an example, ARH made merge style collectors standard components from the very beginning because felt there was a power advantage. Turns out we were right and we never changed direction. We like to think that most in the industry had to follow our lead but for those that didn't, it's about cost. We also pay special attention to tube routing for best fit and length for maximizing power on a wider range of applications. Then we have the various options in tube and collector size that others are either incapable or reluctant to offer. Having multiple options and being willing to provide them isn't cheap, yet it's the source of countless happy customers that needed something more than off the shelf parts.

Three or four HP difference may not sound like a lot but I promise you, it'll be the difference between a win or a loss when rowing thru the gears in a side by side race. Most racers would give up their first born for 3-4 extra HP from their headers. Those are the customers we especially love to cater too

We also try really hard to provide the best customer service. Mistakes are made, I'll be the first to admit, but the ARH staff puts the effort into making the corrections as fast as possible. Should it cost more for providing excellent customer service? No but in many cases a cheaper parts come with horrible customer service. We've seen that first hand as well. Thanks for hearing me out.

Nick
A.R. Headers

[bowtienick]

Truthfully I've seen some guys run cheap headers AND a cam not put up as much power as I did. Now who spent their money better. I've seen some variation too but consistently better headers manual cars put down at least 420 hp.

[Bo White]

The most that's been on local dynos was in the 420s.
The dyno day I was at all the bolt on Camaro SS M6 cars put down 41x-42x

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by bowtienick

Truthfully I've seen some guys run cheap headers AND a cam not put up as much power as I did. Now who spent their money better. I've seen some variation too but consistently better headers manual cars put down at least 420 hp.

Sure you did...

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by A.R. Headers

Guys, I'd like to add a little perspective from a company that is certified 100% US made. It most certainly costs more to manufacture in the States. There's no getting around that nor do we have the desire to. We're proud of our staff and what they've done to help build our reputation. We're also quite content with the quality of the materials we use for manufacturing. In the exhaust industry, other than trying to increase your profit margin, we see no reason to use anything that isn't manufactured here. We've seen what happens and heard the horror stories. We chose a different path from the start and it works for us.
The other part of the story is how the parts, in this case header systems, are designed. It's easy to say they're all the same or make similar power but that simply isn't true. As an example, ARH made merge style collectors standard components from the very beginning because felt there was a power advantage. Turns out we were right and we never changed direction. We like to think that most in the industry had to follow our lead but for those that didn't, it's about cost. We also pay special attention to tube routing for best fit and length for maximizing power on a wider range of applications. Then we have the various options in tube and collector size that others are either incapable or reluctant to offer. Having multiple options and being willing to provide them isn't cheap, yet it's the source of countless happy customers that needed something more than off the shelf parts.

Three or four HP difference may not sound like a lot but I promise you, it'll be the difference between a win or a loss when rowing thru the gears in a side by side race. Most racers would give up their first born for 3-4 extra HP from their headers. Those are the customers we especially love to cater too

We also try really hard to provide the best customer service. Mistakes are made, I'll be the first to admit, but the ARH staff puts the effort into making the corrections as fast as possible. Should it cost more for providing excellent customer service? No but in many cases a cheaper parts come with horrible customer service. We've seen that first hand as well. Thanks for hearing me out.

Nick
A.R. Headers

[Unreal]

I've run them all, and I won't touch anything but ARH from now on. Had ebay headers, JBA, kooks, LG, and dealt with plenty of other brands. Fit, finish, power, and customer service of ARH can't be beat.

[SimpleGreen]

My truck is rocking a $250 set of long tubes from Schoenfeld. Painted steel, 1 3/4". They fit great and haven't leaked or otherwise did anything weird. My buddies run Kooks and once I finally do my car, that's what I'm ordering.

You get what you pay for, but I do believe some are better deals than others.

[CamaroCracka]

I got OBX for price and I had put them on my truck almost 10 years ago so I had seen how they were made and they've worked great for me. I also understood customer support was going to be 0 and my only option would be to return them if I had a problem. There were guys on the truck site buying $1000 headers then, but the majority of the guys on there ended up buying Pacesetter ceramic coated units which were half the price, but still made in America.

It's not that I generally buy Chinese junk because I have a big Snap On box that is full of American made tools and all my vehicles are from American companies even if they were made in Canada and Mexico. However, with the headers there was not enough difference to justify the price in my eyes and the extra $500 went towards bushings, trailing arms, and toe rods.

Not all of us can afford to pay someone 5k to install a cam. We have to work within our budgets so we sacrifice that extra 5hp the high dollar unit might bring so we can afford other things that will improve our times more than 5 extra hp.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CamaroCracka

I got OBX for price and I had put them on my truck almost 10 years ago so I had seen how they were made and they've worked great for me. I also understood customer support was going to be 0 and my only option would be to return them if I had a problem. There were guys on the truck site buying $1000 headers then, but the majority of the guys on there ended up buying Pacesetter ceramic coated units which were half the price, but still made in America.

It's not that I generally buy Chinese junk because I have a big Snap On box that is full of American made tools and all my vehicles are from American companies even if they were made in Canada and Mexico. However, with the headers there was not enough difference to justify the price in my eyes and the extra $500 went towards bushings, trailing arms, and toe rods.

Not all of us can afford to pay someone 5k to install a cam. We have to work within our budgets so we sacrifice that extra 5hp the high dollar unit might bring so we can afford other things that will improve our times more than 5 extra hp.

They have customer service. If you buy them off Ebay and have a problem and contact them then they will respond. If they don't then all you'd have to do is contact Ebay. Even if you give them a bad feedback I think Ebay fines or charges them a fee. One thing I like about Ebay is that they completely protect the buyer. They'll even refund your money and go after the seller themselves.

[CamaroCracka]

Yes, that is what I was referring to by the only option being returning them. If you have a technical question (not that likely with headers) you would be lucky to get a response. I actually contacted them on a part before I bought it and never got a response but I did not pursue it. I have read similar stories from others. There headers are 304 stainless, which is what you want, flanges are 3/8s, welds are good. Not much to complain about.

[TXLS3]

Originally Posted by Indydriver

My tuner is pretty picky and only uses ARH, so ARH it is.

I suggest you focus on finding the best tuner in your area then follow his advice on products he prefers to work with.

Your tuner is running a racket.. Kinda like dr. Drew only works with the rich and famous. Wonder why?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CamaroCracka

Yes, that is what I was referring to by the only option being returning them. If you have a technical question (not that likely with headers) you would be lucky to get a response. I actually contacted them on a part before I bought it and never got a response but I did not pursue it. I have read similar stories from others. There headers are 304 stainless, which is what you want, flanges are 3/8s, welds are good. Not much to complain about.

True...

Originally Posted by TXLS3

Your tuner is running a racket.. Kinda like dr. Drew only works with the rich and famous. Wonder why?

I agree with you totally. If any "tuner" thinks he is gonna tell me what to buy, then its time I find another "tuner". I buy what I want.

[Camarojt]

Originally Posted by A.R. Headers

Guys, I'd like to add a little perspective from a company that is certified 100% US made. It most certainly costs more to manufacture in the States. There's no getting around that nor do we have the desire to. We're proud of our staff and what they've done to help build our reputation. We're also quite content with the quality of the materials we use for manufacturing. In the exhaust industry, other than trying to increase your profit margin, we see no reason to use anything that isn't manufactured here. We've seen what happens and heard the horror stories. We chose a different path from the start and it works for us.
The other part of the story is how the parts, in this case header systems, are designed. It's easy to say they're all the same or make similar power but that simply isn't true. As an example, ARH made merge style collectors standard components from the very beginning because felt there was a power advantage. Turns out we were right and we never changed direction. We like to think that most in the industry had to follow our lead but for those that didn't, it's about cost. We also pay special attention to tube routing for best fit and length for maximizing power on a wider range of applications. Then we have the various options in tube and collector size that others are either incapable or reluctant to offer. Having multiple options and being willing to provide them isn't cheap, yet it's the source of countless happy customers that needed something more than off the shelf parts.

Three or four HP difference may not sound like a lot but I promise you, it'll be the difference between a win or a loss when rowing thru the gears in a side by side race. Most racers would give up their first born for 3-4 extra HP from their headers. Those are the customers we especially love to cater too

We also try really hard to provide the best customer service. Mistakes are made, I'll be the first to admit, but the ARH staff puts the effort into making the corrections as fast as possible. Should it cost more for providing excellent customer service? No but in many cases a cheaper parts come with horrible customer service. We've seen that first hand as well. Thanks for hearing me out.

Nick
A.R. Headers

I would just like to say I like what your company stands for! I know you guys have great headers and also offer many options that others don't.
I am one of those guys that will just about trade his 1st born for 3-4hp. And I would be willing to sell my TSP 2" headers and buy your ARH 2" headers if you could guarantee 4HP gain!
Ill be honest, I've seen lots of cheap headers perform Very well so I'm a little skeptical that it would gain anything but I would love to find 4 more HP!