[0stones0]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I've said it before - battery production is the problem:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tilakdo...h=44b4e18b650b

"There are 7.2 million battery EVs or about 1% of the total vehicle fleet today. To get an idea of the scale of mining for raw materials involved in replacing the world’s gasoline and diesel-fueled cars with EVs, we can take the example of the UK as provided by Michael Kelly, the Emeritus Prince Philip Professor of Technology at the University of Cambridge. According to Professor Kelly, if we replace all of the UK vehicle fleet with EVs, assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation batteries, we would need the following materials: about twice the annual global production of cobalt; three quarters of the world’s production lithium carbonate; nearly the entire world production of neodymium; and more than half the world’s production of copper in 2018.

And this is just for the UK. Professor Kelly estimates that if we want the whole world to be transported by electric vehicles, the vast increases in the supply of the raw materials listed above would go far beyond known reserves. The environmental and social impact of vastly-expanded mining for these materials — some of which are highly toxic when mined, transported and processed – in countries afflicted by corruption and poor human rights records can only be imagined. The clean and green image of EVs stands in stark contrast to the realities of manufacturing batteries."

You won't see any of this pushed in the news as fast as they're pushing us all switching over to ev's.

[RagingHawk]

It's looking like a lot of affordable ICE sports cars will be killed off in the 2023-2025 frame. The last remaining ones will be the Honda Civic Si/Type R, Ford Mustang, Subaru WRX's, and possibly the Charger/Challenger(FCA has delayed this subject to 2024). Supercars will remain for awhile, Porsche might make the first EV coupes with the Cayman. Otherwise, we are getting a bunch of SUV's with 'peformance' trims for another 10 years. They won't develop sporty coupes or hatchbacks anytime soon.

And if car guys continue making excuses to buy an SUV than the 8th gen Mustang won't become a thing anymore. There is no reason why car guys need expensive SUV's. If they can afford $60,000 plus suv's, then they can afford a sport cars and an dependable suv on the side.

This whole thing is being forced unto people very quickly. Even if you can afford a sports car by 2025, who knows what the prices of gas will be then, or how insurance costs will go up or if they will leverage fees or not. And the infrastructure is not ready for 2025 at all. This zero crashes, zero congestion, zero emissions thing is a very shady goal, I believe it will be to kill off personal transportation(for certain goals) and has nothing to do with saving lives or reducing congestion. They can't even build enough cars now supposedly due to shortage of chips and yet want to force us all to convert to EV now. Very strange.

PS: Don't believe that they haven't achieved price parity with ICE yet. They have, however the infrastructure is not ready and automakers will charge 7K over invoice due to federal tax credits. At same time they will lobby government to enforce even tighter regulations on ICE and gas to try to get people to switch up to EV quickly for their massive investments to pay off. In America we should resist any unfair or unjust regulations on ICE cars. Especially in such rapid time frame.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by 0stones0

You won't see any of this pushed in the news as fast as they're pushing us all switching over to ev's.

As seen in the mainstream narratives, and those who follow...

Ignorance is bliss - if you plug your ears and sing LaLaLaLa then EVs are the future for everyone - yay!!

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the push for EVs or foreign political interference in .gov mandates involving vehicle sales:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...bal-ev-market/

[RagingHawk]

Btw, don't y'all love all these new articles coming out about the EV 'Revolution' and so called 'sky rocketing demand', lmao. Media has become a total joke. There is no 'revolution' or 'sky rocketing demand' for EV. ICE is simply being outlawed so rapidly in major international markets and taxes on ICE vehicles are what are sky-high in places like Europe. So, there is no incentive left for such people to not drive an EV.

As for the Mach E, I'm starting to see them, they are very nice SUVS. Regardless, I'd never buy an SUV with my own money. I graduate this year and will only drive manual ICE sedan/hatches/sports coupes until they are killed off. In the meantime, my parents are kind of enough to lease me Chevy CUV's and I can't stand them. It's made me allergic to SUVs. Very boring and bad handling characteristics, also hate the high ride height.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Btw, don't y'all love all these new articles coming out about the EV 'Revolution' and so called 'sky rocketing demand', lmao. Media has become a total joke. There is no 'revolution' or 'sky rocketing demand' for EV. ICE is simply being outlawed so rapidly in major international markets and taxes on ICE vehicles are what are sky-high in places like Europe. So, there is no incentive left for such people to not drive an EV.

As for the Mach E, I'm starting to see them, they are very nice SUVS. Regardless, I'd never buy an SUV with my own money. I graduate this year and will only drive manual ICE sedan/hatches/sports coupes until they are killed off. In the meantime, my parents are kind of enough to lease me Chevy CUV's and I can't stand them. It's made me allergic to SUVs. Very boring and bad handling characteristics, also hate the high ride height.

If you ever have a family - wagon FTW!

That said, my wife isn't as keen as me, so she chose a used SUV that gets incredible fuel mileage for it's size, and can handle our 2 children, 2 dogs, and anything else we need to haul daily easily. Of course the AMG package helps handling characteristics Anyway, it's her vehicle, I only own a truck and couple of crappy chevies.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

If you ever have a family - wagon FTW!

That said, my wife isn't as keen as me, so she chose a used SUV that gets incredible fuel mileage for it's size, and can handle our 2 children, 2 dogs, and anything else we need to haul daily easily. Of course the AMG package helps handling characteristics Anyway, it's her vehicle, I only own a truck and couple of crappy chevies.

I totally forgot about wagons, haha, it's crazy how we have so few in America, but that Buick wagon is a win with a lot of people. It's the only one I see often. I believe it has all-wheel drive too.

Absolutely, for the wife/pets/kids an SUV makes a lot of sense. You can't go wrong with an AMG, haha, girls in general are crazy over the G-wagon, it's pretty funny. The dream car for every girl I know is either a Jeep Wrangler or Mercedes G-Wagon.

Talking about pickup trips, this California based startup revealed an EV pickup truck concept. Looks more interesting than other EV designs(with exception of Hummer EV). Nothing said about towing capability though, let's see if they can get it into production:

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

I totally forgot about wagons, haha, it's crazy how we have so few in America, but that Buick wagon is a win with a lot of people. It's the only one I see often. I believe it has all-wheel drive too.

Absolutely, for the wife/pets/kids an SUV makes a lot of sense. You can't go wrong with an AMG, haha, girls in general are crazy over the G-wagon, it's pretty funny. The dream car for every girl I know is either a Jeep Wrangler or Mercedes G-Wagon.

Talking about pickup trips, this California based startup revealed an EV pickup truck concept. Looks more interesting than other EV designs(with exception of Hummer EV). Nothing said about towing capability though, let's see if they can get it into production:

Hope to one day find my perfect spec CTS V wagon M6 for sale and be able to pull the trigger. Dad goals!

Truck is cool looking, but useless as far as true truck duties - use mine for towing and hauling. Both of which ruin EV range, and I'm rural, so it really doesn't work for me.

[RagingHawk]

Awesome, more taxes for the low and middle class, while their tax money doesn't actually fix the roads most of the time. And people wonder why millennials are still living with their parents. Surviving is getting more and more expensive while wages remain stagnant. This EV 'revolution' is gonna make transportation more expensive than it needs to be in order to fund general infrastructure of the country and infrastructure for EV's.

And like always, these taxes kill the middle class more than anyone else. And rich people are either not affected or find loopholes around taxes. So, everyone needs to adapt to pay more to get less, except rich people.
..
..
A By-the-Mile Tax on Driving Gains Steam as a Way to Fund U.S. Roads

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...re-gains-steam

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Hope to one day find my perfect spec CTS V wagon M6 for sale and be able to pull the trigger. Dad goals!

Truck is cool looking, but useless as far as true truck duties - use mine for towing and hauling. Both of which ruin EV range, and I'm rural, so it really doesn't work for me.

Agree with you, pure EV just won't meet many of peoples needs for a time to come. Especially for trucks. I am curious to see how automakers will work that out. Ford is saying the F150 electric will have a big towing capacity but that says nothing about the range. And I wonder how many motors and how big the batteries will be in those things. Won't be good for the environment that's for sure.

I imagine hybrid pick up trucks will remain the top choice for automakers and consumers for a long time. And I like your thinking with the CTS-V wagon, that generation of CTS-V was impressive with both the coupe and wagon options. Wow, I just looked and the Wagon's are holding their value much more than the coupe sibling.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Agree with you, pure EV just won't meet many of peoples needs for a time to come. Especially for trucks. I am curious to see how automakers will work that out. Ford is saying the F150 electric will have a big towing capacity but that says nothing about the range. And I wonder how many motors and how big the batteries will be in those things. Won't be good for the environment that's for sure.

I imagine hybrid pick up trucks will remain the top choice for automakers and consumers for a long time. And I like your thinking with the CTS-V wagon, that generation of CTS-V was impressive with both the coupe and wagon options. Wow, I just looked and the Wagon's are holding their value much more than the coupe sibling.

Manual Vagons are crazy pricing, but super rare - so I will have to pay a pretty penny to get the one I would like.

The problem isn't EV truck towing capacity, it's range while loaded. Model X owners are seeing 50% range decrease from 50% of towing capacity. That is indicative for most EVs when they encounter extra load. That is also from a Pro-EV study showing the benefits and capabilities of the Model X, not a critic inspired review.

I get that most truck owners don't need a truck...but I own a truck for its towing and hauling ability or else we drive the SUV. So I don't want my range to go to 25% or less when I tow a 10,000lb camper (which I already can deduce it will).

[FarmerFran]

Pulling my camper with my RAM I can go about 400 miles if I let the light come on, which I would not! SO safely 350 miles. Until an EV can get close to that towing I am out of that market. Even if charging times are the same as fueling, I do not want to stop a bunch more times on a trip.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Pulling my camper with my RAM I can go about 400 miles if I let the light come on, which I would not! SO safely 350 miles. Until an EV can get close to that towing I am out of that market. Even if charging times are the same as fueling, I do not want to stop a bunch more times on a trip.

I'm roughly the same/slightly more mileage with my Sierra. EV will NOT get that towing my camper, unless there is a quantum leap in battery technology, in which case worldwide production would still be lacking.

[Crushin_LT1]

EVs are toys for the wealthy probably till at least 2030. cool concept, great to show that you're "socially conscious" but not practical.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

EVs are toys for the wealthy probably till at least 2030. cool concept, great to show that you're "socially conscious" but not practical.

I think they've gotten to the point many people can easily function with one as their only/main vehicle. A 200-300 mile range is plenty for most people's daily driving needs, especially if they can charge overnight or at work. Then the few times a year they go on longer trips, maybe it's an extra stop or two, but like I make a stop every couple of hours anyway.



The problem is that electric cars are still fairly cost prohibitive, even the cheaper models aren't cheap in terms of cheap cars, you're paying a significant premium over a similar ICE car. I don't think you have to be wealthy to afford a $40k car, but people certainly aren't cross shopping them with a Sentra. Also, for those without a garage, it makes it difficult or impossible to charge overnight, which is a big advantage of electric vehicles.



Owning an ICE car is quickly becoming like how many people drive pickup trucks every day just in case once or twice a year they need to haul something big.



They're certainly not right for every person, but for many, they are totally capable of doing everything they need/want out of a car. If I didn't do autox and track days, I'd be right in their target market.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

EVs are toys for the wealthy probably till at least 2030. cool concept, great to show that you're "socially conscious" but not practical.

As long as you ignore the children dying the DNC for your Cobalt, and the total footprint of mining the resources and production of the battery...totally socially conscious!

I agree they make a great case for a daily driver. Would be perfect for my wife as long as she could charge at work, especially during the winter (we just had the longest spell under -40 every night for 70 years). No maintenance other than tires is obviously appealing as well...at least until there is a battery pack issue.