[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by minn19

But, back to the conversation, these speeds are not attainable on what most of us consider what a road course is.

You guys should not let Ford set the narrative like that though. Just because that's their excuse (road course) for limiting the GT500 like they did does not mean that it's a valid excuse. Run whatever tracks/courses that you like, disregard Ford's talking point.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Pretty sure nothing happen to the car other than clutch over heat that some of the GT500’s have been getting. He ran the ran after that pass. That’s been the only major flaw I’ve seen in them so far that would drive me crazy.


He has in car video of that pass on his youtube.

Yea the car was ran again and none of the videos mentioned anything wrong with, I think he blew the launch on the pass and just coasted the rest of the way. Nothing wrong with the car.

Seems like after some hot lapping without cool down time they all do the clutch overheat thing. The blue palm beach dyno car kept doing it amost every run after his burn outs.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

You guys should not let Ford set the narrative like that though. Just because that's their excuse (road course) for limiting the GT500 like they did does not mean that it's a valid excuse. Run whatever tracks/courses that you like, disregard Ford's talking point.

I agree with the camp that says those speeds are not reached during true road course racing/running, and aren't necessary for a track car like the acr.

I also agree that its ridiculous that this 760hp 75-100+k "wunder" car is limited to 180mph( 18x redlining in 5th if you remove the limiter). Ford knows most gt500s will never see a road course track. They will see drag strips, standing 1/2 or miles, and a lot of "mexico" runs. Let the car impress in all facets of motorsports bragging rights and capabilities including top speed.

If it has a gearing related top speed, thats kind of a shame and sucks for a halo car but what are you going to do. M6 zl1s top out at less than ss's for the same reason.

If it is limited due to some safety or stability issues that is pathetic.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

You guys should not let Ford set the narrative like that though. Just because that's their excuse (road course) for limiting the GT500 like they did does not mean that it's a valid excuse. Run whatever tracks/courses that you like, disregard Ford's talking point.

Oh trust me, I don’t trust much of anything Ford says lately.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I agree with the camp that says those speeds are not reached during true road course racing/running, and aren't necessary for a track car like the acr.

I also agree that its ridiculous that this 760hp 75-100+k "wunder" car is limited to 180mph( 18x redlining in 5th if you remove the limiter). Ford knows most gt500s will never see a road course track. They will see drag strips, standing 1/2 or miles, and a lot of "mexico" runs. Let the car impress in all facets of motorsports bragging rights and capabilities including top speed.

If it has a gearing related top speed, thats kind of a shame and sucks for a halo car but what are you going to do. M6 zl1s top out at less than ss's for the same reason.

If it is limited due to some safety or stability issues that is pathetic.

What is more ridiculous to me is I’ve been reading on M6G that even the CFTP may need a lock out/alignment kit for the rear cradle. That is inexcusable for a 94k MSRP up to 140ish I’ve seen real world numbers priced car.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

You guys should not let Ford set the narrative like that though. Just because that's their excuse (road course) for limiting the GT500 like they did does not mean that it's a valid excuse. Run whatever tracks/courses that you like, disregard Ford's talking point.

Bottom line is that Ford set a technical limit and the reason they gave for doing so.

The cost associated with engineering a 200-mph car versus a 180-mph car is not insignificant, and it likely allowed for the wiggle room to include such performance-enhancing features as a dual-clutch automatic transmission and a rear wing borrowed from the Mustang GT4 racer. This should make for the most track-capable Mustang of all time and something that should rival the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE's pony-car record at C/D's Lightning Lap.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...500-top-speed/

But then, After showing up with 5 tractor trailers loads of cars on March 26th to do “pre lightning lap”testing, Ford left and we get the following.

Ford Not Interested In Chasing Lap Times With Shelby GT500

Chevrolet isn't shy about such things

Ford’s new 2020 Mustang Shelby GT500 should be one fast machine. Thus far we only have a few vague stats from the automaker to gauge exactly how fast it is, and those estimates only account for straight-line speed. In its GT500 press release, however, Ford was keen to tell us about the car’s suspension tuning, aerodynamic enhancements, and massive brakes. Clearly, this Mustang is designed to be more than a one-trick pony, but according to Motor Authority, Ford isn’t interested in benchmarking the GT500 with official lap times.

Speaking to Motor Authority at the 2019 Detroit Auto Show, Ford Performance Chief Engineer Carl Widmann allegedly said there were “no plans” to go lapping with the GT500, either for benchmark times or records. Reportedly he went on to say Ford hadn’t published such numbers in the past, but that’s not entirely accurate. Almost a year ago to the day there was a bit of excitement over Ford racing driver Billy Johnson setting a lap record at Virginia International Raceway in a Ford GT

It could be argued that it wasn’t an official Ford endeavor, having occurred after Car & Driver’s Lightning Lap testing at the track, but the time was certainly shared by the Blue Oval's PR crew. And then things went strangely quiet when Chevrolet beat that record days later with its Corvette ZR1. That was back when Jamal Hameedi was the chief at Ford Performance, and curiously, he said almost the exact same thing as Widmann.

Chevrolet, on the other hand, has a Camaro ZL1 1LE that can lap the Nürburgring in just 7 minutes 16.4 seconds, and it let the entire world know about it. Ford never officially sent the Shelby GT350 to the Green Hell, but unofficial times had the 526-horsepower (392-kilowatt) Mustang clocking a 7:32 lap. With the GT500 set to make over 700 hp (522 kW) while utilizing segment-leading brakes and aero tweaks up the wazoo, it feels like a tremendous cop-out if Ford doesn’t dip its foot into the pool on this one.

In the report, Widmann did suggest that Ford would send a GT500 to Car and Driver’s next Lightning Lap showdown at VIR, so there could potentally be at least some closure on the big Shelby’s track prowess. But building something as awesome as the GT500 then stepping away from direct competition seems a bit weak to us. Come on Ford, give the people what they want – a proper Mustang-versus-Camaro showdown.

https://www.motor1.com/news/301700/f...-times-shelby/

Pity. The ZL1 1LE A10 was there

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Bottom line is that Ford set a technical limit and the reason they gave for doing so.
But then, After showing up with 5 tractor trailers loads of cars on March 26th to do “pre lightning lap”testing, Ford left and we get the following.
Pity. The ZL1 1LE A10 was there

Maybe the GT500s were all on tires that were "well cooked"...

Anyway, Ford doesn't need to give a reason because their fanboys will make up all the excuses they need. They spent the early part of the last decade letting the aftermarket do their dirty work so they could keep pumping out $25K GTs. Now they're letting their fans do the dirty work in making up BS excuses. They even got (alleged) "Camaro guys" trying to defend them. LOL!!

The ZL1 and ZLE was too well built and GM spared no expense when they built them. Ford should have never tried to go after them. They should have just made a stable, 200+ MPH, 700+ HP Mustang that focused on the quarter mile but could handle better than the HC and RE. They should have skipped all those expensive materials which basically drove the cost up and still couldn't help it accomplish it's goal. They should have given it eLSD, HUD, subwoofer, and other features as standard instead. They should not have tried to tackle the RE or Demon. If they didn't then they would have had a clean second place across all categories including price. They should have skipped the DCT as it was an unnecessary and time consuming expense. Then they should have made it rock solid and maybe dialed it back so it wasn't pushing such extreme limits. Warranty the thing, offer a track warranty, and then let the aftermarket work on suspension upgrades to make it more capable around a track. That would have been the better way to go. And maybe even a "low" HP version and a HO version instead of CF nonsense. Like a 700 HP GT500 and then the 760 HP GT500 for about $7K more to match the HC/RE. And they should have made plenty of them to keep the dealerships honest. I assure you they would have stolen RE and C8 sales if they had done that. THAT would be a car that I would have difficulty passing up for a C8. It probably would have had a 205+ MPH top speed too which would have been nuts!! But who goes that fast anyway...??

[hotlap]

"Come on Ford, give the people what they want – a proper Mustang-versus-Camaro showdown"

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by minn19

Blaq, why don’t you knock off your own crap for a change?
No I didn’t get banned and I own a ZLE so duh. If you want another enemy here keep it up.

What is with all of the CIA like secrecy? They talk a lot of shit on M6G, but at least most of them can back it up and say where they did what.

This thread almost got shutdown because of you and your continued nonsense. Get over yourself, this isn’t your forum and you are not a moderator.

He thinks anything that comes off his keyboard is gospel, when 90% of it is BS. Then he tries to act like he's being "the bigger man" saying he ignores us and wants to keep the thread on track which is more BS. When someone is the common denominator in all the arguements that shows who the problem is.

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Guessing that your continued attitude towards me shows that you did indeed mean to falsely accuse me of bad info with your use of quotes? Fact is, I don't take the use of 'legit' lightly, and would not have used it for 'mexico' stuff. I was talking about a legit racing organization, and the figures are from standing mile. To explain what the procedure is, you go from not moving to the distance, and the final 132' of the run are timed, then the average speed across those lights is your timed speed.

Thanks for finally answering, but in no sense of the word is a runway a track or even farther fetched a road course. Dictionary or car world definition.

Originally Posted by minn19

Thank you, why was that so hard? No attitude, I was also legit curious as to how/where you did this.

But, back to the conversation, these speeds are not attainable on what most of us consider what a road course is.

Exactly

Originally Posted by minn19

What is more ridiculous to me is I’ve been reading on M6G that even the CFTP may need a lock out/alignment kit for the rear cradle. That is inexcusable for a 94k MSRP up to 140ish I’ve seen real world numbers priced car.

I'm pretty sure Ford is going back to the it's not a track car excuse at this point.

Originally Posted by hotlap

"Come on Ford, give the people what they want – a proper Mustang-versus-Camaro showdown"

Its not gonna happen Throttlehouse was our best chance.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

"Come on Ford, give the people what they want – a proper Mustang-versus-Camaro showdown"

It's not gonna happen cause they scared. Ford built up a lot of hype. They had magazines initially foaming at the mouth about how amazing the GT500 is. Even before they raced it against anything they were declaring victories left and right. It handles blah blah blah, the acceleration yada yada, best Mustang ever, all that talk. Just for Ford to take their toys and go home. And just for highly modded GT500s to lose to stock Demons.

BTW, remember that one BMW-Troll who claimed he had a GT500 on order at MSRP( ) and ended up getting himself banned from here? Wasn't he trying to bet money that the GT500 was gonna beat the RE and ZL1/ZLE? What was it, like $200 or $1000 or something he was trying to bet? Or 2 to 1 odds or something?

[oldman]

The Vette came out with DCT and turned off some. I'm at the age and the stock performance level that if I buy a C8, it will be the base with all season tires and DCT or for what Jane 6 pack calls an "auto". One main reason for the long hold time of the GT500 was the need to incorporate the DCT in order to perform in road races against its benchmarked cars. The decision on the trans (much like the C8) led to what the car is today.

1) 7 speeds and a 7500 rpm leads to large RPM drops between the gears. The ZLX A10 has about 1/3 less HP drop between the gears. This does hamper the 760 HP car.

2) Chevy probably made the right choice and maybe just put a whole lot more engineering into their C8 and it has excellent 0-60 and launch characteristics (yes I know we are front engine vs mid-engine) even on all-season tires. Seems Ford is still working on launch for the GT500, and frankly does not consider the GT500 a drag car. Sure a few will drag it, many will pose with it and some will actually use it on the road race circuit. So as a muscle car drag car the GT500 has to be a heck of an expensive option and the Camaro from SS to ZL1 offers a better transmission or transmissions of choices. The auto being faster and cheaper in just about any application from street pick up a soda at 7-11 to road racing to high speed runs. The manual just being plain fun at a performance penalty that many are willing to pay.

I do see the GT500 meetings several customer needs:
a) many people can't drive a manual (posers) and by buying a GT500 for status
b) the just want a really good road race and street car and ain't ever going to drag or stop light street fight. Say this is about 80% or more of the actual buyer of the car.

Nutshell the GT500 performance parameters were dictated by the DCT and it will meet the usage of 80% or more of the buyers. GM offers two transmissions and either meets the 99% of its market segment, people wanting to go fast for cheap and / or have fun for cheap. The same has been going on for 53 years now. GM is relatively cheap to play and Ford unless you get a Boss or Clevland or CJ, you get a 4 bbl windsor motor and that was still a "high performance" motor from Ford. It is just really expensive to play with a Ford and let's be honest either these GT500 guys have money to burn or they are in it way over their heads as these GT500 have to be the MOST expensive 1/4 mile Muscle cars ever and we know it is all fun and grins till the motor or trans lets go after a whole 60 days of usage.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Thanks for finally answering, but in no sense of the word is a runway a track or even farther fetched a road course. Dictionary or car world definition.

I never said that my info came from a road course, you must be confused or something. I have said that a road course is not the only type of track that you can run on and that absolutely stands.

[oldman]

I raced at A&M for many many years and their track is setup on an abandon runway form ww2. We setup a "road race" on it. Look road race came about over the last 100 years as a race that happens on a road that is probably blocked off for the event. As more people got more cars and roads in general can't be blocked, "road race" moved to privately owned areas the mimic a "road race" i.e. a track that is not dirt or a banked oval. To say that a "road race" only means this narrow deffinition belies the whole history of "road race". As pointed out there are still "road races" in the US that make use of public roads... not some private land trying to mimic a "road race". To say that these RACES that happen on a ROAD are not "road races" is completely and totally none sensical and should be drop.

[oldman]

Since I'm on this history rant, let me address staring line racing. In general, there was a flag girl (always is), as the boys are the "racers", we looked at a little used road in west Texas, and the length of the track (yes sometimes there was a painted end of the 1/4 mile, ask me how I know), LA had something like this in the big drainage ditches, Hawaii had this at Sandy's before the haloes built up Hawaii Kai, I'm sure this was true in EVERY nook and cranny in the US and everywhere else.

As an aside in HS we hosted a Geman soccer team here for a playoff. So of course everynight we would go drinking and drag racing. My 3 bros and I had these three cars: 69 Camaro DZ 302, with I believe was a Pioneer underdash supertuner, Jensen speakers, dual cones in the front (sound system to party with) I'd park in fist open the trunk and "blast that" all night till races were over or the cops came. My bro built 302 windsor Mustang, general family car 440 dart with widen cop rims, my "race car" AMC Gremlin with N50 out back and a 390 that came from my older sister's Scrambler (took the sun tac also). Anyway the German guy said to me one night, is this all you Americans do is drink, girls and race everynight? I said yep, bout it.

Anyway the point is the "drag" was a flag drop. Modern 1/4 miles with these timed trees are supposed to mimic this "flag drop" the problem I see is that in general testing and most of these street nights, the timer does NOT start till the light beam is broken. If the GT500 really has an issue with a DCT launch delay (sure on a timmed full tree you can leave earlier), but in the real world (stop light fight) and as we see on the video, it is going to lead to a serious wooping and yes there is a real world, where real cars drive and owners sometimes engage in real world exceleration when the light turns green. So for the sake of me not being banned, lets just say in "flag drop" racing, a slow DCT will but this GT500 back into the pits on the very first round. aka you should have brung a GT auto.